Balance

[Max Blue]

Where is the demand for balancing out the sports nights? How many people have been attending each sport each night? And how many duels are being fought each night? Those are two separate statistics, too. People go to RP where the action is. It doesn't always mean they specifically choose DoM over DoS or DoF. It just means that's where everyone is at on that given night.

The last DoF standings posted has a total of 3 duels for that week.

The last DoM standings posted has a total of 13 duels for that week. 10 of those duels were Fight Night. The other three were on a Wednesday.

The last DoS standings posted has 30 duels for that week. Almost twice as many duels as the other two sports combined.

What about challenges per cycle? How do those compare to each other between all three sports?

Then, of course, there is the problem of resources. Not enough callers. Not enough callers that want to call all three sports. I'll be honest, if I came back to calling, and you told me I had to do all three sports, I wouldn't even consider it anymore.

The participation to duel nights ratio seems pretty balanced to me. If you want your sport to have more nights, promote it. Get people interested in it more. If you have your participation hopping, then fill out the officiating to cover it (starting with the one wanting the extra day, but that's my opinion).

[Neo Eternity]

Whoa, I didn't even know this thread was happening until just now.

My reply to Max right before me, and Jaycy, near the beginning of the thread, concerning participation ratios is: so what? So what if DoS is the most popular? I've been around for a long time, and it's had three days for as long as I can remember. Who's to say that greater participation in swords isn't purely because it has more nights? Who's to say that participation wouldn't balance out more if the scheduling was evened out?

There were some ignorant suggestions given in this thread. The one I'll touch on here is, "if you want a shift for magic on mondays, get a caller on mondays". The reason that isn't going to work was outlined very plainly in the very first post in this thread. DoF takes place on mondays. Two duels on one night is highly unintuitive, and it only damages participation for both of them. It's true that since one would be on RoH and the other on RDI, you could sign one character into both rooms, but that's far, far from ideal. I would not want to fight a fists duel and a magic duel at the same time in different windows/tabs. My performance in both of them would suffer.

I agree with Matt's stance on fight night every night. It would cause each setting's attachment to its venue to fade. And when we tried it before, it didn't work that well anyways.

So, in my opinion, the best solution is to give each venue two days a week, and then fight night. There wouldn't be as much of a problem with callers; we'd only need one per each night: seven. Whereas the current setup would need nine in order for each shift to be called. Of course, that's assuming each caller can call the whole night. Each venue would be given maximum, balanced opportunity for participation, and there's no way to convince me that the maximum opportunity is present with this setup.

Also, concerning the participation stats for magic that Max posted: The Mega Cast occured that tuesday night, and the extremely gracious Misty started calling regular duels at around midnight. Which is technically wednesday.

[Michiko]

Oh Neo...

Of the three sports, I'm of the opinion that Swords is the Easiest to call both on RDI and RoH. Followed by Magic and Fists. Some feel Magic is the most difficult...

Point is, not everyone is comfortable calling all three sports. How are you going to assign callers based on your model?

Whoa, I didn't even know this thread was happening until just now.

My reply to Max right before me, and Jaycy, near the beginning of the thread, concerning participation ratios is: so what? So what if DoS is the most popular? I've been around for a long time, and it's had three days for as long as I can remember. Who's to say that greater participation in swords isn't purely because it has more nights? Who's to say that participation wouldn't balance out more if the scheduling was evened out?

There were some ignorant suggestions given in this thread. The one I'll touch on here is, "if you want a shift for magic on mondays, get a caller on mondays". The reason that isn't going to work was outlined very plainly in the very first post in this thread. DoF takes place on mondays. Two duels on one night is highly unintuitive, and it only damages participation for both of them. It's true that since one would be on RoH and the other on RDI, you could sign one character into both rooms, but that's far, far from ideal. I would not want to fight a fists duel and a magic duel at the same time in different windows/tabs. My performance in both of them would suffer.

I agree with Matt's stance on fight night every night. It would cause each setting's attachment to its venue to fade. And when we tried it before, it didn't work that well anyways.

So, in my opinion, the best solution is to give each venue two days a week, and then fight night. There wouldn't be as much of a problem with callers; we'd only need one per each night: seven. Whereas the current setup would need nine in order for each shift to be called. Of course, that's assuming each caller can call the whole night. Each venue would be given maximum, balanced opportunity for participation, and there's no way to convince me that the maximum opportunity is present with this setup.

Also, concerning the participation stats for magic that Max posted: The Mega Cast occured that tuesday night, and the extremely gracious Misty started calling regular duels at around midnight. Which is technically wednesday.

[Elijah]

What about multiple nights of Fight Night mixed with single sport nights? Maybe make one of the Fight Night a non-Swords night? Or do an additional Fight Night but held in DM? What about a schedule like the following:

Monday: RoH/Isle - DoM
Tuesday: RoH/Outback - DoF
Wednesday: RoH/Outback or Isle alernates or DM - Fight Night (DoS optional)
Thursday: RoH/Arena - DoS
Friday: RoH/Annex or DM - Fight Night
Saturday: RoH/Arena - DoS
Sunday: RoH/Annex - Fight Night

I have no issue with how things are myself. But change and shakeing it up every once in a while can be good.

[Topaz]

To clarify, Magic used to happen Monday and Tuesday nights. For months, a year almost, participation for DoM on Mondays had been at zero. For the few who did show up to duel, waiting around for 2 hours or longer for second dueler to show wasn't fun even while talking to the official there. Understandable. It is also no fun for an official to spend a two hour shift on the isle more oe less by himself or herself. So we decided to scrap Monday for DoM and concentrate on Tuesday. This made the chance to find an opponent when coming to the isle that much higher. And overall participation in DoM rose significantly.

Nothing would make me happier than to have demand be up so much to warrant getting 2 callers ready and available, provided the volunteers can be found, and to have magic dueling on Mondays again. Meanwhile, if demand is high enough to add in an extra all ranks tournament, we'll try that and see how it goes.

[Jaycy Ashleana]

The schedules for the three should be independent of each other, for the most part.

If there are callers for it, give DoM another night. You don't need to stop another sport from dueling if they have a caller available.

The duelers will go where they want to.

[Neo Eternity]

Swords does not need three nights. Magic needs more than one night. Fists is good as it is with two.

Elijah's proposed schedule is an interesting idea. Though I would not like the idea of giving DoS three nights, and the others only one.

As for callers... obviously, we have an abundance of callers for swords. Of all the active callers, of which there are ten, we should easily be able to find two callers for each venue. Of course, it's entirely possible that I'm underestimating the issue.

I don't understand what's so wrong with two nights per venue, other than favoritism for DoS. Is there something really obvious that I'm missing?

[Max Blue]

I don't understand what's so wrong with two nights per venue, other than favoritism for DoS. Is there something really obvious that I'm missing?

Yes.

[Goldglo]

Again, in case I wasn't clear on this before: the schedule is not set up as it is to favor one sport over another. The schedule is as it currently is due to the availability of calling staff and the sports that staff is willing and/or able to call; if we have more volunteer callers willing to host DoM shifts on nights other than Tuesdays, and the player-base supports those shifts by showing up and participating in RP and/or dueling, that's great!

Just as DoM found their Monday shift nearly always empty of duelers, DoF's in a very similar situation on Tuesdays/Wednesdays. As Topaz wrote, it sucks as a caller to sit there for 2 or 3 hours, week after week, with little or nothing to do, either calling duels or role-playing, because nobody shows up. It certainly sounds like there are a lot of players who'd support and attend a second DoM shift. If there's someone willing to call another shift for DoM, DoF, or DoS, as I said before, I'm sure a day/timeslot would be established for that shift.

--Matt (the real one)

[Jaycy Ashleana]

I don't understand what's so wrong with two nights per venue, other than favoritism for DoS. Is there something really obvious that I'm missing?

Here is what you're missing. Why should I, as a Swords player, suffer losing dueling on a Friday night just because you, a Magic player, wants DoM to have another shift? I don't care about DoM, I won't go play there if it's my only dueling option. My times for dueling Swords at points were limited to Fridays only.

You want a DoM shift on Friday nights? There's a caller willing to do it? Great, take that to Topaz. But there is no need to force another sport to close if a DoM shift is added. It's not an either/or situation.

Don't ruin others' fun just because you're not having enough.

[Neo Eternity]

That reply wasn't helpful in the least, Max. Jaycy's was much more helpful.

I don't understand what's so wrong with two nights per venue, other than favoritism for DoS. Is there something really obvious that I'm missing?

Here is what you're missing. Why should I, as a Swords player, suffer losing dueling on a Friday night just because you, a Magic player, wants DoM to have another shift? I don't care about DoM, I won't go play there if it's my only dueling option. My times for dueling Swords at points were limited to Fridays only.

You want a DoM shift on Friday nights? There's a caller willing to do it? Great, take that to Topaz. But there is no need to force another sport to close if a DoM shift is added. It's not an either/or situation.

Don't ruin others' fun just because you're not having enough.

I could say exactly the same thing. Why should I, as a Magic player, have to duel only one night just because the Swords duelists want three, just because certain swords duelists don't care about Magic?

I know that's not how Matt feels, but it sounds like that's how you and others here feel. It sounds to me like you don't want to give up a Swords night to Magic just because you have Swords on a pedestal. I don't think it's right to give the most time to the most popular venue, because those who prefer the other ones are the ones who lose.

I'm completely sure there'd be a caller willing to call an additional shift for Magic. Hell, I'd be willing to do it! I'd be perfectly willing to make one of my characters a caller and undergo the training, to call a shift on Monday nights, knowing that I'd be able to duel on Tuesdays. But even without me, there'd be a caller willing to do it. I know it.

Except with the present scheduling setup, people would be forced to pick between either dueling Magic, or Fists on Monday nights, thus hurting the participation for both. It is an either/or situation.

EDIT: Re-reading, you said Friday nights. If Magic were held on Fridays, the same thing would happen; Swords and Magic would have to compete.

Magic should not have to compete with Fists, and the other way around. The same goes for Magic and Swords, and Fists and Swords. That's the point I'm trying to make. I think that the duels should have even time, without competing with each other for participants. That's my opinion.

[Max Blue]

So I decided to count up how many duels each sport has had recently. I counted duels posted from July 15th, to current date.

DoF had 27 duels over 12 nights of dueling (including FN) and averaged 2.25 duels per night.

DoM had 35 duels over 8 nights of dueling (including FN) and averaged 4.375 duels per night.

DoS had 120 duels over 16 nights of dueling (including FN) and averaged 7.5 duels per night.



Call me crazy, but I can't figure out why the reasons for DoS having more nights than the other two aren't obvious. Do you still think it's bias? Personally, looking at the numbers, I'd be willing to bet taking a night away from DoS would hurt the overall participation of RoH more than it would help just one of the sports.

[Michiko]

Okay, Let's not use statistics to justify the load balance. Statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the person wishes.

Jaycy, Neo - How about why should I give up my play time to help others enjoy there's? So far I read two very selfish arguments for and against this change, but neither argument is more than just being selfish

Neo, you are completely ignoring the issue in favor of continuing to push for another night.

Issue begin Staffing and Participation...

Given that I am the other regular DoM Caller and Monday nights I have been covering DoF, you are asking for DoF to take a hit in order for DoM to have another night.

Seriously... You want change but are ignoring the logistics and the fact that there are people here that would like to be able to play and duel as well.

Neo,

Are you willing to sacrifice one night of your playtime to open up the DoM an additional night?

[Max Blue]

Okay, Let's not use statistics to justify the load balance. Statistics can be manipulated to show whatever the person wishes.

How about we stop using DNA to prove the innocent/guilty while we're at it, too?


"Logic. Who needs it?"

[Michiko]

The Numbers don't show the work that the callers, coordinators and admin team puts in.

THat is the point I am trying to make. People are asking for things, but haven't stepped up to say they will help.