Reduction of Baronies - Discussion

[Alasdair Galloway]

I think I've pretty clearly stated that the goal was to have the number of titles more in line to match the number of active participants in the sport. If not, allow me to reiterate, the goal is to have the number of titles more in line to match the number of active participants in the sport. I've never said that it's about having more challenges or pushing for more challenges.

I feel like reducing the amount of titles better reflects how many active participants we have, and this would help make it more special to win and hold a Barony, and in turn keep that title-holder engaged in the game. The added bonus is that we can also add some more RP hooks to the rings to make them even more desirable to have.

Since this is an open discussion, other topics and ideas were floated and talked about, and I appreciate the ideas and numbers that everyone's brought to the table. We're looking at everything.

And no decision has been made about if we'll move forward with reducing the titles. Other ideas we may implement on a trial basis before making any permanent rule changes, such as allowing a vacant barony to be challenged for.

Should we move forward with reducing the Baronies, it will not be a sudden thing nor just us picking random baronies and removing them from play. We'll let the community know well ahead of time. So there's no need to worry about anything vanishing out of the blue.

[PrlUnicorn]

DoM has both its ART and the ArchMage Tournament, which likewise limits the participants to the rank of Mage and no lower.

Minor addition; DoM's ART is unrelated to cycles and is offered 4 times a year when there are approximately 6 cycles per year, since DoM's cycle is several weeks shorter than DoS and DoF.

Would it be fair to say those are seasonal rather than cyclical?

[Delahada]

I think I've pretty clearly stated that the goal was to have the number of titles more in line to match the number of active participants in the sport. If not, allow me to reiterate, the goal is to have the number of titles more in line to match the number of active participants in the sport. I've never said that it's about having more challenges or pushing for more challenges.

I feel like reducing the amount of titles better reflects how many active participants we have, and this would help make it more special to win and hold a Barony, and in turn keep that title-holder engaged in the game. The added bonus is that we can also add some more RP hooks to the rings to make them even more desirable to have.

With respect, that goal was not made clear until just now, which is obvious given how confused we have admittedly stated we are, and several of us now have disagreed with your opinion. Those of us with dissenting opinions have pretty clearly stated that we feel reducing the number of baronies would do more harm than good to the sport. DoS is not in any state of stagnation. Activity is not dwindling. In fact, it is increasing, and if things continue as they are I imagine it will only continue to increase.

The DoS titles already feel special to me. Each barony has its own unique setting, and various occupants have used them in different ways. Some for good and some for ill. There are decades worth of history attached to each and every single baronial ring. Fictional blood has been spilled to earn them, and from my own experience I can say literal sweat and tears as well. Do you really think that by reducing the number of baronies that it will prevent title holders from retiring them because of the many various reasons that they do? Burnout is real. Real life obligations are real. What do you mean by keeping title-holders engaged in the game? Are they not already?

I'm curious what kind of RP hooks you have in mind that will make the titles more desirable than they already are, and even more curious to know why you think they are not desirable as they already are. If you ask me, it's the aforementioned politics that make holding the titles less desirable. Even worse is the constant threat and endurance of challenges. Not a lot of people want to expose themselves to that kind of stress and pressure, and I imagine that is what keeps them from engaging in the title game.

[Strawberry]

DoM has both its ART and the ArchMage Tournament, which likewise limits the participants to the rank of Mage and no lower.

Minor addition; DoM's ART is unrelated to cycles and is offered 4 times a year when there are approximately 6 cycles per year, since DoM's cycle is several weeks shorter than DoS and DoF.

Would it be fair to say those are seasonal rather than cyclical?

Correct! Accordingly, they each have a fire/air/earth/water theme that is static from year to year as opposed to the DoM cycles which have their own set of cycle names.

[PrlUnicorn]

I think after reading everything in this thread again, that I'm even more confused as to what the position of the original idea was. It was positioned as a way to make the titles more coveted/special (implying a need for more challenges for them). And that while vacancies weren't the thing that prompted the idea, they do seem to contribute to it, so there's a need to get and keep titles in circulation as much as possible because of slow turnaround on getting them back out to the community after a retirement or vacancy.

I'm so bemused that I resorted to saving the thread in the waybackmachine for future reference! The Mandela Effect of thinking I read one thing and going back to see something it wasn't what I thought it was makes me bonkers!

I think I've pretty clearly stated that the goal was to have the number of titles more in line to match the number of active participants in the sport. If not, allow me to reiterate, the goal is to have the number of titles more in line to match the number of active participants in the sport. I've never said that it's about having more challenges or pushing for more challenges.

Actually, no, you weren't clear until now. Throughout the discussion, I kept having the feeling that the proverbial goal posts for what you want to do were being moved farther apart as people presented facts as data to show that not only is DoS very active, but in last year, it has been more active than ever.

[Alasdair Galloway]

I apologize if I did not state my thoughts clearly beforehand. I stated in the original post:

Reducing the number of Baronies would put us better in line with our sister sports, and I believe this would better match the current number of active participants we currently have.

And I'm sorry if I should have stated it more clearly or put it on its own. I'll try to do better in the future.

We've had discussions branch off of the topic in regards to the topic, and I'm sorry if I should have steered them to another thread for a discussion of them, such as ideas around vacancies and length of time, and kept this one focused on the topic at hand. But I'm glad to hear everyone offer up their thoughts and ideas and I know that we all want what's best for the game, even if we may disagree on what exactly that is.

I don't want to get into what RP hooks we've thought up, because that would be getting off track of the purpose for this thread. But we do have ideas, and I want to assure everyone that the districts and Barons having access to all of those perks would remain. We can certainly discuss this in another thread, and in the future when we have the ideas fleshed out, we will be sure to present them for everyone.

[Kira Adia]

I've been following this thread since it started, and I would like to add another opinion to the discussion. Bear in mind, of course, that this is coming from someone who has, until recently, been a DoM exclusive participant, and as so far failed to win a single duel in DoS.

I've been chewing on the entire discussion as it's played out, but I'd like to try to respond to the original post itself, albeit flavored with the discussion that had come from it.

My primary focus has always been on RP first, and Duels a distant second. I joined DoM when it was a plot significant action, and all my decisions since them have been story motivated. I know for sure that I'm not unique in this perspective, but I want to be sure to clarify where I stand with regards to participation in the sports. Based on that, my opinion is this: I feel the Baronies as they exist now, and in their current number, are all significant and special as titles within the framework of storytelling.

That's not to say I wouldn't stand against a compelling story reason for a reduction in the number of titles in the sport, for the purpose of a: aligning with the other sports in terms of number of titles, and b: attempting to match the number of titles to the number of eligible active challengers. I'd like to linger on that second point. If the focus is purely on titles to competitors, I can fully see the reasoning. I feel the numbers as presented do show, however, that the actual activity within the challenge game justifies the number of titles. I have on occasion remarked that the DoS community is overall much more active and competitive than DoM based on my personal experience. Part of my OOC reason for staying in my home sport is the feeling of being more laid back. I feel like even more of an outsider to DoF than I do DoS, but it also seems to have a much more casual pace than either sport based just on what I've seen.

I have a hard time commenting on the political game of DoS with any real strength of opinion, partly because I find that aspect intimidating and have questioned my desire to participate in it in the past. Kira, however, is very interested IC in participating, which circles back to my prior point. My entire justification for ever challenging for a Baronial Ring would be based on story and character reasons. I would be less inclined to participate in challenges for a reduced number of titles if that meant losing IC access to some benefit of holding that title, if not as written in the common descriptions, then as perceived within the context of story as presented. Which, again, means that, given a compelling storyline that completely shakes up the in game political aspect of the reduction of titles, I could completely support such a move if I can justify it as a direction I'd like to take Kira.

That about sums up my opinion on the matter. As written in the text, I can see no existing reason to reduce the number of titles, but could be easily convinced with a fun and engaging story reason. It could be inspiration to get Kira more involved in the sport than she currently is. However, based on OOC reason, I see no particularly convincing reason, in my personal opinion based on experience, to reduce the number of titles. The sport is thriving, and I feel like the participation of the community on both sides of the debate is evidence in the passion the community has for DoS as presented now. The culture and passion of the sport feels correct for the current title pool.