Questions Thread

[G]

If the decision is that the achievement should be rescinded for those who received it in error according to the current posted standards, I can live with that.

The point of my question is not to ask for achievements to be rescinded, it's to get things on the same page. If, for instance, it should be Mage's neophyte not Keeper's then people might have earned the achievement and didn't ask for it because of the wording.

Question: Can Keepers have neophytes, even if they've only 2 WoL?

[Andrea Anderson]

If the decision is that the achievement should be rescinded for those who received it in error according to the current posted standards, I can live with that.

The point of my question is not to ask for achievements to be rescinded, it's to get things on the same page. If, for instance, it should be Mage's neophyte not Keeper's then people might have earned the achievement and didn't ask for it because of the wording.

Question: Can Keepers have neophytes, even if they've only 2 WoL?

Nope. Mage only. The system is open to all mages to take on lower ranks as Mentees, same as DoF. Maybe the achievement mishap came with thinking it might be like DoS where you need to be a title holder to have a squire, which isn't the same in the other two sports.

[PrlUnicorn]

Question: Can Keepers have neophytes, even if they've only 2 WoL?

Nope. Mage only. The system is open to all mages to take on lower ranks as Mentees, same as DoF. Maybe the achievement mishap came with thinking it might be like DoS where you need to be a title holder to have a squire, which isn't the same in the other two sports.

Another reason why the wording should be changed.

[Morgan le Fay]

What makes sense to me is that the squire/mentee achievement should be worded to say Mage/Baron/Emerald.

Only squire is restricted to a title, so it makes sense that the achievement mentions a title being the requirement. The other two aren't restricted by title, only the highest rank. Meaning, Barons/Overlord are still warlords, Opals/Diamond are still emeralds, Archmage is still a mage.

[Goldglo]

When we updated the achievements, I specifically worded these as 'Keeper/Baron/Opal' with the idea being that it's relatively easy to become a mentee to an Emerald or a neophyte to a Mage. It's slightly more difficult to become a mentee to an Opal or a neophyte to a Keeper. Diamond and Archmage were left out on purpose as well.

--Matt

[G]

When we updated the achievements, I specifically worded these as 'Keeper/Baron/Opal' with the idea being that it's relatively easy to become a mentee to an Emerald or a neophyte to a Mage. It's slightly more difficult to become a mentee to an Opal or a neophyte to a Keeper. Diamond and Archmage were left out on purpose as well.

--Matt

So then, Only Keepers with the rank of Mage can have Neophytes?

If that's correct, then I'll need to go through and check to who incorrectly has that achievement. The fault is mine for not paying closer attention.

Nutshell: The achievements only occur if those asking for it are given the title(Mentor/Neophyte/Squire) by the appropriate title holder (Opal/Keeper/Baron) and hold the appropriate rank to award the titles.

[Lem DeAngelo]

When we updated the achievements, I specifically worded these as 'Keeper/Baron/Opal' with the idea being that it's relatively easy to become a mentee to an Emerald or a neophyte to a Mage. It's slightly more difficult to become a mentee to an Opal or a neophyte to a Keeper. Diamond and Archmage were left out on purpose as well.

--Matt

So then, Only Keepers with the rank of Mage can have Neophytes?

If that's correct, then I'll need to go through and check to who incorrectly has that achievement. The fault is mine for not paying closer attention.

Nutshell: The achievements only occur if those asking for it are given the title(Mentor/Neophyte/Squire) by the appropriate title holder (Opal/Keeper/Baron) and hold the appropriate rank to award the titles.

Only mages can be mentors and have neophytes. In order to earn the sorcerer's apprentice achievement the mentor has to be a Keeper. In order to be a mentor, one has to be a mage.

[G]

When we updated the achievements, I specifically worded these as 'Keeper/Baron/Opal' with the idea being that it's relatively easy to become a mentee to an Emerald or a neophyte to a Mage. It's slightly more difficult to become a mentee to an Opal or a neophyte to a Keeper. Diamond and Archmage were left out on purpose as well.

--Matt

So then, Only Keepers with the rank of Mage can have Neophytes?

If that's correct, then I'll need to go through and check to who incorrectly has that achievement. The fault is mine for not paying closer attention.

Nutshell: The achievements only occur if those asking for it are given the title(Mentor/Neophyte/Squire) by the appropriate title holder (Opal/Keeper/Baron) and hold the appropriate rank to award the titles.

Only mages can be mentors and have neophytes. In order to earn the sorcerer's apprentice achievement the mentor has to be a Keeper. In order to be a mentor, one has to be a mage.

So, before my head asplode...

The achievement is Sorcerer's Apprentice.
You have to be Neophyte to a Keeper to get this achievement.

Only Mages can have Neophytes.

So, in order to gain this achievement, the Keeper MUST have the rank of Mage.

Right?

And same goes, though, for the other two. Barons and Opals. To get the Mentored achievement, it has to be an Opal. The Mentee of an Emerald is not eligible for this achievement.

Barons is easy, cause squires only occur with Barons.

In other words, anyone who has requested that achievement and it was to just to Emeralds and Mages were incorrectly awarded.

Now the question is, do I go through all those requests and revoke, or just let it sit as is and be more vigilant in the future.

I think, honestly, that I'm going to keep it as is, and be more careful on checking the verification.

[Goldglo]

The achievement is Sorcerer's Apprentice.
You have to be Neophyte to a Keeper to get this achievement.

Only Mages can have Neophytes.

So, in order to gain this achievement, the Keeper MUST have the rank of Mage.

Right?

And same goes, though, for the other two. Barons and Opals. To get the Mentored achievement, it has to be an Opal. The Mentee of an Emerald is not eligible for this achievement.

Barons is easy, cause squires only occur with Barons.

Correct; prior to the last round of achievement updates, I believe the wording for the DoF version was inclusive of Emeralds. The new wording limits it to Opals only.

[PrlUnicorn]

What makes sense to me is that the squire/mentee achievement should be worded to say Mage/Baron/Emerald.

Only squire is restricted to a title, so it makes sense that the achievement mentions a title being the requirement. The other two aren't restricted by title, only the highest rank. Meaning, Barons/Overlord are still warlords, Opals/Diamond are still emeralds, Archmage is still a mage.

The Archmage is also the Keeper of the Celestial Tower. Only those of Mage or Mage Emeritus Rank can enter the cyclic tournament to gain a shot at the title. Unless there's a change in that, an Archmage's neophyte would be always eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.

[G]

What makes sense to me is that the squire/mentee achievement should be worded to say Mage/Baron/Emerald.

Only squire is restricted to a title, so it makes sense that the achievement mentions a title being the requirement. The other two aren't restricted by title, only the highest rank. Meaning, Barons/Overlord are still warlords, Opals/Diamond are still emeralds, Archmage is still a mage.

The Archmage is also the Keeper of the Celestial Tower. Only those of Mage or Mage Emeritus Rank can enter the cyclic tournament to gain a shot at the title. Unless there's a change in that, an Archmage's neophyte would be always eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.

Archmage is a title on it's own and not considered a Keeper title, thus would not apply to the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement. There are only 4 Keeper titles.

[Claire Gallows]

What makes sense to me is that the squire/mentee achievement should be worded to say Mage/Baron/Emerald.

Only squire is restricted to a title, so it makes sense that the achievement mentions a title being the requirement. The other two aren't restricted by title, only the highest rank. Meaning, Barons/Overlord are still warlords, Opals/Diamond are still emeralds, Archmage is still a mage.

The Archmage is also the Keeper of the Celestial Tower. Only those of Mage or Mage Emeritus Rank can enter the cyclic tournament to gain a shot at the title. Unless there's a change in that, an Archmage's neophyte would be always eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.

Archmage is a title on it's own and not considered a Keeper title, thus would not apply to the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement. There are only 4 Keeper titles.

It isn't? I was under a different impression.

As of September 21st, 2000, the Archmage also is the Celestial Keeper

http://www.ringsofhonor.org/dom/ckeep.php

[Lem DeAngelo]

Archmage is the highest RANK who also holds the TITLE of Celestial Keeper. The archmage's neophyte is eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.

[G]

Archmage is the highest RANK who also holds the TITLE of Celestial Keeper. The archmage's neophyte is eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.

Sounds like we need to make some clarifications for this achievement.

[Lem DeAngelo]

The achievement description says Be A Keeper's neophyte. The top section of the DoM standings list the 5 keepers in large, bold font and the first Keeper is listed as Archmage/Celestial. Each neophyte has their mentor's name next to them on the standings in the format [mentor: Lem].

To get the achievement, you have to be neophyte to a Keeper, but only mages can have neophytes. I'm not sure what the achievement description used to say, but it looks clear now. If it needs to be simplified further, is it easier to just change the achievement title to "Keeper's Apprentice" or even "Keeper's Neophyte."