Invitational?

[Sylus Kurgen]

I've seen it mentioned a few times on Warlords/Players not using the tools available too them. Yet there are two aspects not covered yet.

1. They're not active.

2. Some characters need a better reason to challenge for a title than that they simply can.

Sylus as a character accepted BECAUSE he was invited. Not that he gives two squirts about being a Baron. Sylus challenged Deathlord because he was a Baron with 1-0 on his record. He wanted to see what the fuss was about. He didn't care about the Baron, but wanted to see if he was good enough to have the title.

He's not going to challenge for a title just because it's something he doesn't have. To him that's a child's logic "ooh shiney, me want". It has to be more than that for him.

Like before Teagan resigned, he was working on SoA to challenge her for what she did to Joey.

[G]

For the record, I did not speak to anyone about this. Aside from someone suggesting to me that a Iron Man tournament would be a good idea, there was no one else involved in the process. No one else was involved in deciding who I was going to invite, the number of participants, or how they were chosen.

I did not "speak only to my buddies." I still disagree that I am showing favoritism. If I were, then quite simply several of those chosen probably wouldn't have gotten an invitation.

This does not mean that I can't see the value in some of these arguments presented. Can I see how someone would be upset that they weren't chosen? Certainly.

I wanted to create a tournament that would be fun for those involved, and more fun for those watching. I was trying to do it with something on the line to make it that much more important a show. This was all my doing.

Why some weren't chosen? Of the 49 Warlords, an Overwhelming Majority of them I have Not seen in the Arena. They are not participating. Choosing the Eight I did choose was not easy at all. I left some out because they may already have a Barony, or I invited another character of theirs, or I know the character does not really have an interest in a Barony. Rounding it down to Eight wasn't hard. Rounding it up TO Eight was.

I check regularly to see what characters come into the arena and play, even if they don't duel. So using an argument of "You don't know when or if I show up" isn't going to be a valid one.

[Kalamere]

I wanted to create a tournament that would be fun for those involved, and more fun for those watching. I was trying to do it with something on the line to make it that much more important a show.

Which is laudable. No sarcasm there, I really like the Ironman tournament idea and I think it's cool you're trying something new. The concept of the tournament and the fact you need no more than 8 people to make it work aren't at issue I don't think.

You just put yourself and the warlords you selected in a bad spot by choosing the participants the way you did.. at least that's my only point here. I don't think anyone has complained about the rest.

There are other ways that don't carry this kind of appearance of impropriety that could get you to that goal. I can imagine some that might even drive up attendance for a week or two while you did it. I'd urge you to reconsider what you've got put together and implement one.

[MurOllavan]

10/10: Same day as the ART, which I think Gwen was hoping to participate in judging by a post made in another forum. Regardless, Wyh was over at the ART and Mur covered the Annex shift for her that night. The log shows him being there from at least 9:01pm through 9:42pm. Since there are zero lines of text post 9:47, I can't tell you how long he actually stayed. Only 1 other person entered during that time though. 1 point to Wyh

All shift, basically just sat there with him waiting. I left 15 min early to catch the end of the ART. Upon doing so, it actually struck me that my time might have been better spent helping call the ART.

As far as the topic:

I have to agree with Harris. Sad to see people indicating that coordinators should be psychic. Leaders need to be able to make decisions with only partial knowledge of a group's wants or needs. You fail faster to succeed faster.

My impression from reading boards was that DoS had gotten 'boring' and its Baron rings had become meaningless trinkets. Am I the only one to see this was an attempt at helping to fix that? Whether or not the invite part of the format is an agreeable addition...

[Jake]

There are other ways that don't carry this kind of appearance of impropriety that could get you to that goal. I can imagine some that might even drive up attendance for a week or two while you did it. I'd urge you to reconsider what you've got put together and implement one.

Highlighted for emphasis. Otherwise, I concur with Kal on all points.

[Harris]

Amazingly some of us actually *trust* the coordinators in charge of the sports. There are a lot of decisions in the rules that state the final say or any disputes are left up to the Supervisor of the sport. I seriously doubt this is the first decision made unilaterally and I doubt it'll be the last.

Jake and Kalamere make salient points about how this may *appear* and I don't doubt I'd be scrutinizing the entrants just the same if I hadn't been invited. Difference is I would've shrugged and deferred to the decision of a Supervisor who has been participating in this sport for over a decade. I wouldn't have publicly blasted him and claimed he was playing favorites because I was butthurt others didn't get invited. I wouldn't go pointing fingers at the entrants for accepting the invitations. I wouldn't be throwing a temper tantrum on the boards about it, because frankly that's not the way to handle it. Again, it's *highly* likely this is a one and done event and not the standard way vacated Baronies will decided upon.

I take more issue with the accusations thrown toward the sport's coordinator than I do with anyone having a disagreement on the chosen format of this tournament, because this isn't a permanent rules addition, it's an event that will pass and things will return to the way they were after it's over. Slinging mud leaves a stain that lasts much longer than that.

[VeryOldHistoryGuy]

There are other ways that don't carry this kind of appearance of impropriety that could get you to that goal. I can imagine some that might even drive up attendance for a week or two while you did it. I'd urge you to reconsider what you've got put together and implement one.

http://www.ringsofhonor.org/forums/view ... hp?t=19615

[Xavior Mues]

I'm gonna go waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay out on a limb here and assume this isn't going to be the regular format for filling vacated Baronies. But let's get all up in arms about it anyway and bombard the DoS Coordinator with accusations of exclusionary and cliquish behavior. That makes perfect sense.

::Nod nod:: Not only does it makes good sense, it does zero good. The proper way to deal with this problem is to grab your own ankles and say "Thank you sir, may I have another?"

[Xavior Mues]

The invitational asserts that people were selected for their skill, past accomplishments, ability to make for an entertaining event, etc.

Then why didn't Xeric make the list?



In all honesty I feel a little sorry for G. Does he show favoritism? Yes. Did he chose people from the coven? Yes. Does he always choose people from the coven? Yes, but I believe his heart was in the right place. As coordinator he simply could have let the ring collect dust until the next WLT, but he didn't...he made his job harder and gave up his own time to hold this tournament. I may not agree with his choices, but I do appreciate his willingness to do what he can to encourage activity in the game. Many other people would do well to appreciate this tournament and follow his example by increasing their own participation before giving him a public tongue lashing.

I'm not saying we shouldn't scream at him, I'm not saying we shouldn't tell him when he is wrong...hell, I'm not saying we shouldn't string him up by his thumbs and beat him with a horsewhip. I'm saying that if more people were as active as he is then Teagan wouldn't have retired, the ring wouldn't be vacant, and I wouldn't be responding this very amusing thread.

I once held a tournament for the lower ranks and had some 'friend's of mine cause it to blow up in my face. I learned that good intentions pave the path to hell.

[Maria Graziano]

Favoritism? That's utter silliness.

Here are a list of the warlords who have dueled in the last two months and are, therefore, "active" but were not invited:
Cas - Duh!
Evan - Evan hasn't been around consistently for many years.
Farek - Recently returned from a long absence.
G'nort - Now THAT would be favoritism.
Gork - Recently returned from a long absence.
Jake
Kheld
Anya - Cannot be involved for SL reasons.
Red
Soerl - Recently deposed baron
Teagan - Recently deposed baron
Vinny
Xanth

So the only "active" warlords that can possibly call this a slap in the face are Jake, Kheld, Vinny, Xanth and Red. The only one I hear complaining is Jake and he's only saying that it "APPEARS" to be favoritism but he knows G'nort well enough to know that it isn't.

As a completely disinterested third party, it doesn't APPEAR to be favoritism. Instead, it APPEARS that some of you have your panties in a bunch for no particular reason.

[Tristanie Minx]

1. It is favoritism if people of the same rank aren't granted the same opportunities. The part that concerns me is that the action is DIVIDING the community.
a. Easy fix - Lottery to join Iron-Man
b. Easy fix pre-tournament and the 8 finalist compete in this Iron-man tournament

2. There are tournaments constantly, so much so that normal dueling is near impossible to get done. Because even if there is a caller, there is often a serious lack of attendance due to "said" tournament of the hour. This is my personal gripe and no need to focus much here, just saying for a non warlord.... I guess I could drag out the warlord though if I wanted to.

3. Don't complain about callers not being there unless you're going to step up and be one too. Those of you who call, thank you.

4. The entire reason behind this community is to *build* community, not break it down with unilateral decisions. I mean no offense to G even if it sounds that way, he's got a great idea here.

My suggestion overall is to take a few minutes, get some feedback, take some polls, role-play it, whatever. But the health of the community is not based on doing what "you" (meaning each of you and me) *think* is best. Let's incorporate more feedback than less is my point of view here.
No reason this can't be rectified.

My feelings aren't hurt about who is or isn't invited, didn't even read the list yet honestly, to me it is about exclusion. Period.
It's fixable with little effort if people are willing. This can be a positive for many instead of a few.

The pot is stirred...now what are we going to do with it?

[Xavior Mues]

As a completely disinterested third party

Exactly who's supposed to believe that? Better yet, which part are you trying to sell?


Once again, the fact that he might have done something a little wrong is less important than the fact that he did something. It was once said "The only wrong thing to do is nothing."


If the population of the DoS doesn't like the way the staff is doing things then it's the population's responsibility to leave them less to do. Or that's the convoluted way I see things.

[Xavior Mues]

4. The entire reason behind this community is to *build* community, not break it down with unilateral decisions. I mean no offense to G even if it sounds that way, he's got a great idea here.

My suggestion overall is to take a few minutes, get some feedback, take some polls, role-play it, whatever. But the health of the community is not based on doing what "you" (meaning each of you and me) *think* is best. Let's incorporate more feedback than less is my point of view here.
No reason this can't be rectified.

My feelings aren't hurt about who is or isn't invited, didn't even read the list yet honestly, to me it is about exclusion. Period.
It's fixable with little effort if people are willing. This can be a positive for many instead of a few.

The pot is stirred...now what are we going to do with it? Very Happy

I really hate to continue to beat a dead horse, but I'm going to say it again.

A ring was vacated and the rules don't require an immediate tournament, a nonexclusive method of choosing participants for a tournament, or anything except that, if still open, the ring be a prize in the next WLT. Had there been as much public interest in the ring BEFORE it was vacated there's a good probability that it WOULDN'T be vacant.

If the way the participants in this tournament were chosen leaves a foul taste in anyone's mouth then I suggest not allowing it to happen to another ring. Lack of activity caused this issue and the coordinator came up with, what he thought was, a good solution for the immediate problem of a vacant ring.

Now, before I sound like I'm actually defending him I'm going to shut up, but I would respect the complaint of a person who was active and being screwed more than the opinion of one who isn't active and is crying foul.

[Jake]

So the only "active" warlords that can possibly call this a slap in the face are Jake, Kheld, Vinny, Xanth and Red.

This isn't really a supportable argument.

1. G specifically stated some of the criteria that was used for inclusion, and being active within the last two months was not a limiting criteria. If it had been, Xeno would not have qualified.

2. You listed, but eliminated, Anya, Gork, Farek, Evan, Soerl, and Teagan. If the sole limiting criteria *were* being active within the last two months, then why exclude these people?

Given that the criteria was *not* limited to being active within the last two months, there are other perfectly valid Warlords who could have cause to feel left out.

[Maria Graziano]

As a completely disinterested third party

Exactly who's supposed to believe that? Better yet, which part are you trying to sell?

Your questions make no sense. Why am I a disinterested third party? I am not currently playing. I wasn't invited. I would have declined an invitation should it have been offered. The only party involved that I have talked to in months is Harris and none of it has been about roleplaying.

Given that the criteria was *not* limited to being active within the last two months, there are other perfectly valid Warlords who could have cause to feel left out.

I was responding to calls of "favoritism" and this being a "slap in the face to all ACTIVE warlords".

If you want to say something along the lines of "this is an interesting concept and I wish it would be more open next time" then fine. But the calls of "favoritism" and "cliquish" behavior is ridiculous and unwarranted. And I'd love to know what ACTIVE warlords are feeling slapped in the face. The only warlords complaining haven't dueled since the last time I dueled. Certainly, we can't call them "active" since some of them were quick to tell me that I wasn't an "active" baron.

I told my husband about this last night and he said something along the lines of "that's exactly what keeps me from coming back". He's not alone in that. There are a lot of us that are turned off by this sort of over the top reactionary behavior. I am so tired of the accusations and hurtful words being tossed whenever there is a disagreement on an issue. Not everything is a personal affront.

Funny how all the people complaining are able to challenge thanks to the new no peer win system but haven't in years. It APPEARS to me that they are just looking for yet another opportunity to tear down an active, participating member of this community. Sorry. You'll get no pat on the back from me over it.