How do we feel about the tests of worthiness?

[Jackson]

Hi! So now that I’m a Baron myself again I was thinking about the mechanics surrounding the challenges. And well I guess I find the tests odd. Since A. Swords is the only sport that has them, and B. There is no point B

I guess I just want to hear others’ opinions on the matter, since my own opinion, (please understand that this is just a opinion) is that I don’t like the tests. I feel as if they are just sort of a bumper for the title holder to avoid fighting, when you know, that’s what they signed up for when they became a Baron. I feel as if it can lead to cheap situations too, where like what if I’m being challenged by a duelist who’s around my skill level, so they expect to fight me, and well it’s fair fight right? What if I had them do a test with a player who is much more skilled than both of us? They didn’t sign up to fight them, they signed up to fight me. So I feel as if that’s unfair, but that’s the “key” part of this. It’s how I feel. For all I know there is a reason outside of making stories interesting for the tests. So that’s why I’m posting this, how do you all feel about the tests, and what do you think their purpose is?

[PrlUnicorn]

I prefer having options over being locked into Best of Three at all challenges which is the established format for DoM and DoF.

There is something many don't consider with regard to testing. It can give a title holder a little extra time to center themselves and/or get a last minute look at how someone is dueling on any given night.

There is always a possible counter to a test. Renegade Barons can counter a Test from the Overlord to any challenger. There are grants available that allow others to step in. It encourages others besides the challenger and title holder to take part. The tests add an additional layer of strategy like chess.

[Royal]

I'm fine with tests. Politics is the standard in DoS and the purpose of the game. Not all of the sports need to be the same and each have their own special mechanics that may draw different players into them. Duel of Swords is a social game where the politics of the title holders are put at the forefront.

A player who chooses to step into the title game of DoS is given full knowledge that a test may occur. This is not a hidden mechanic, so it is on the challenger to do their due diligence to find a counter test. Simply walking into a challenge night, being met with a Test of Worthiness, and then looking about for someone to offer a counter is not going to always work.

I feel as if they are just sort of a bumper for the title holder to avoid fighting, when you know, that’s what they signed up for when they became a Baron.

The Test of Worthiness, the extra fancies, the Loyal or Renegade benefits of the Barony. It's what everyone who participates in the challenge game signed up for. When you challenge someone you sign up for the chance at being met with a Test of Worthiness or Squire test.

If you (General you) are disinterested in the Test of Worthiness being used against you, the option to challenge a Renegade Baron is there. You only have to worry if their squire has the ability to test or not, and that can be figured out by going to the standings and checking their cycle rankings or if they are Warlord rank. Due diligence is really all anyone needs to traverse the system.

[Delahada]

I agree with both Royal and PrlUnicorn, as is obvious with my reply here.

...what if I’m being challenged by a duelist who’s around my skill level, so they expect to fight me, and well it’s fair fight right? What if I had them do a test with a player who is much more skilled than both of us? They didn’t sign up to fight them, they signed up to fight me.

Personally, I disagree. You are starting with the expectation that you will only challenge or be challenged by people around your skill level. To presume anyone's skill level is folly, as there are plenty of alt characters who are played by veteran duelists that likely you do not even know about. Holding a title opens you up to challenge by absolutely anyone. I will not even say people of equal rank anymore, because there are grants and other awards, such as the Talon of Redwin now, that allow even duelists of lower rank to press challenge.

Per the rules that have been implemented since before even I started dueling, I know the risks involved when I press for challenge of a title. If I press challenge to a Loyal Baron, I am well prepared ahead of time of the possibility of the current Overlord stepping in to intercede and issue a Test of Worthiness on that Baron's behalf, should they request it or not. There is also the risk of a Renegade Baron's Squire requesting to issue a Test of Worthiness, too. The entire game is risk! And personally I feel that removing these risks makes for a far less entertaining and challenging game.

The fact is that yes you did sign up for this. When you challenge any Baron, you accept the risk of a Test of Worthiness. Let's not forget the existence of the constantly floating cyclical Intercession Grant and usage two of the King's Decree for the Warden of Overlook. Currently that means if I challenge any Baron right now (and when my waiting period is up, trust me I will) I could be facing Mira, Anya, or Pearl first instead of my chosen target. Or any Squires if those Barons have them.

If you do not like Tests of Worthiness, I suggest communicating ahead of time and politely requesting they not happen. You may be surprised how willing people will be to grant your request. I, personally, think that removing them would make the game too boring and easy. I also think it opens up a window of opportunity for abusive behavior, such as constantly targeting players one knows are "weaker" than themselves in skill level to take their titles away from them at all times. Which I feel would then discourage those players from further participating and discourage anyone new from even trying.

[Claire Gallows]

Duel of Magic has towers with powers.

Duel of Fists has sentient opals that cause trouble.

Duel of Swords has houses and politics.

Tests are a part of the politics and gives an added dynamic to DoS play. Aside from grace periods, it's a major part of the alignment process and adds a psychological aspect that you don't have to play with in the other 2 sports.

We don't want all 3 sports to be identical, it would defeat the purpose of having 3 separate sports. Don't wanna get tested? Either a) don't challenge in DoS or b) challenge Renegades or otherwise make IC deals to avoid tests.

Also, there's no such thing as a "fair fight".

Without tests and the other mechanics surrounding them, Duel of Swords would be boring as fuck and not worth doing for me.

[PrlUnicorn]

If you do not like Tests of Worthiness, I suggest communicating ahead of time and politely requesting they not happen. You may be surprised how willing people will be to grant your request. I, personally, think that removing them would make the game too boring and easy. I also think it opens up a window of opportunity for abusive behavior, such as constantly targeting players one knows are "weaker" than themselves in skill level to take their titles away from them at all times. Which I feel would then discourage those players from further participating and discourage anyone new from even trying.

On the other side of that coin, it's just as easy to open communication with those that can counter a test as it is to ask if someone is willing to not use one.

[Anubis Karos]

I am wholeheartedly against any OOC attempts to remove the mechanics of the Test. Political intrigue is the calling card of the Duel of Swords, an adjunct that adds to the general pre-modern flavor of the sport. In Western society, swords have been the universal symbol of good and righteousness. Even today this is A Thing: If you're playing a game or a tabletop RP universe and the hero is armed with anything other than a sword, then you're either playing in modern/postmodern times or the creators are actively trying to subvert the trope.

That's because in the pre-modern times that still(for better or worse, but probably about 90 percent worse) inform our society's tropes and thinking, "sword" meant "the law" and "the crown" or "the Church" which of course MUST always be good! Yes, it's naive, but it is what it is.

So in any kind of milieu with sword-fighting and such, honor and politics are ingrained enough to qualify for what is known legally as scenes a faire; basically, you can't really do the genre or milieu without it. That's Argument A.

Now, that more or less pertains to DoS as to how it was when it was created. And yes, you can strongly argue that the consensus is that DoS has changed and moved away from that; actually, it "changed" from the strict D and D setting sometime well before 9/11. But the Test and the general politics has endured because of the argument I like better, Argument B: It brings drama and fun to the challenges, and encourages attendance. It encourages RP.

And even if it DOES hurt the sport mechanics, this is frankly a place to RP and write first and an online game second.

Finally: "An opponent at your skill level"....remember, anyone can beat anyone on any given day.

[Alasdair Galloway]

Just gonna jump in and say that tests aren't gonna go anywhere. So while everyone is of course free and welcome to discuss tests and the good and bad parts, the tests are a big part of the game and will stay in place.

Now with that said, personally, I don't like being involved in asking for a test or having to face one. But I've also never been Overlord so I don't have any experience from that POV. But, I know it's part of the game and if I challenge, then I might face one.

So the best thing to do is be prepared. If you anticipate that you'll face a test, ask someone who can intercede to be there for you. This is great for forming alliances and rivalries IC. You might interact with a character you never have before because they're a renegade Baron and you know you might get tested. Maybe they'll ask you a favor IC for it, and that's kind of what DoS is all about. Politics and making deals and kind of playing the game before you even duel.

It's also a reason why squires were given ability to test and counter, so more people can be involved in the politics and challenge part. I personally feel like there aren't enough Barons who utilize squires, and it's a good tool to help less experienced people get involved. There's no downside to having a squire or to being one! Also it's why we created the intercession grant, because really the politics and challenge game is, like others mentioned, what makes DoS unique from the other sports.

[Partly Cloudy]

Personally, I think the Tests are a great mechanic. My character, Gatito, squired for several months and tested every opportunity he got. As Alasdair mentioned above, testing as a squire provided a way for Gatito to be involved in the challenge process before he was ranked up enough to earn his own challenge rights. It was a great learning tool, and I feel it was good practice for him and for me. It also had a big impact on his personal storyline.

I feel like the tests also provide a low-risk way for others, like the Overlord, other Barons, or Grant Holders, to get involved. Testing allows them to participate without having to issue a challenge of their own or having their own title riding on the line, and I feel like that makes the whole experience a bit more collaborative and inclusive. It brings more people out to the challenges, like Anubis said, and encouraging more participation and RP is always a win, in my opinion.

Jackson raised the question of fairness in his post, so I will say that yes, I feel like the tests do provide Barons with an extra layer of protection that can help them keep what they’ve fought so hard to obtain, and the tests can also add an element of difficulty and uncertainty for challengers. I don’t think this is a bad thing, though. Instead, I view the tests as a perk that Barons have earned along with their title and view them in the same class/realm as a Loyal’s grace period. We all know that each alignment affords a Baron with a certain set of perks and hurdles. In this case, we have a perk that is afforded to all Barons, but which varies according to alignment and circumstance—how you get to utilize this perk is based upon how you play the political and interpersonal parts of the game.

I also view the tests as being similar to running a gauntlet or facing a mini-boss prior to a big boss battle in video games. It might make things harder, but it can also make victory sweeter.