Lobby Behaviors and Best Practices Discussion

[Mallory]

Belated Happy New Year Everyone!

Similar to last year, we wanted to start this new year and decade off with a little housekeeping discussion, particularly about the lobby.

The lobby is a vital piece of our community. It serves as a hub for contact between players, a way to get to know each other outside the game and foster better communication, and it is our public face to the wider roleplaying community. It is the first way most new players ever interact with us. Based on private feedback and our own observations, we feel that the lobby would benefit from a discussion of what is needed to keep it an inviting place that is welcoming to current players as well as a great introduction to the community for new players.

We want to hear from as many members as possible because your concerns and suggestions on this matter are valuable to us. This is your lobby and you should have a say in what it looks like and how we can get it/keep it there. With that in mind: What behaviors make the lobby a welcoming, respectful, and inclusive environment? What are some “best practices” when engaging in the lobby? And what are some behaviors that we should all be more cognizant of because they may make it a less welcoming or inclusive place?

While specific behaviors can be listed, and we want people to voice their opinion, the community guidelines still apply and as such, bullying or targeting others will not be tolerated.

Thank you for taking the time to help us continue to make the lobby a positive fixture in our community.

[Pharlen]

I see usually up to three or four players greeting new names and then promptly interacting with the mechanics of the play and sometimes asking 'oh hay, are you from the old aol?' or whatever.

I usually see a lot of chatter, just typical 'the gamers are jawing' or 'the moms are yakking' and such, often over lapping, and in between pictures of cats and baby Yoda - not a horribly scary place to jump in, mainly, just rather typical nerds in their nerdery.

I have seen one or two people who want to just discuss how the play is, they want a specific mode of play, or want to discuss that, so, because it is so easy to jump room to room, maybe there could be an OOC Players Discussing Play chat? That would immediately put the people who are trying to work out a big storyline or just finding who's looking for what, or how the game is play into a defined spot where the people complaining about work aren't in.

I'm not really interested in the super specialized rooms I've seen others having, like "DnD ooc" and "talk Baby Yoda here" and "post cat butts here", and etc, but the "Rp planning" might work.

[Jochin Nagadari]

Less chat more cat.

[BardGallant]

***Edited to Add**

Responding specifically to:

And what are some behaviors that we should all be more cognizant of because they may make it a less welcoming or inclusive place?

There are three things that turn me off the most.

1. Excessive complaining and negativity. Please stop whinging about your life on the server. It only brings everybody else down. I'm sorry your life is rough, but even when I'm sick and miserable I make light of the situation and try to remain entertaining! We're here to have fun! Follow the rule of Thumper: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

2. Excessive sexual advances and lewd commentary. I know we stepped outside the realm of PG-13 and allow lots of swearing, but please can we still keep with this is not a smut and ERP server? I like that about us, that we're not all sex all the time. Romance is fun to RP. Rooms full of humping and panting and certain "sex jokes" are not.

3. IC personas extending into the OOC channel. I don't mind being referred to by my character's name, because it sounds better than tacking on that ridiculous -mun to the end of a name, but I am not my character. Please do not mistake me for him. People who take their masks and wear them as for real skins OOCly weird me out.

Those are the top the things that'll have me muting the Lobby for a while until things simmer down.

That and if I'm just having trouble concentrating on a room I'm playing in, which happens.

Please continue with the cats.

[PrlUnicorn]

1. Excessive complaining and negativity. Please stop whinging about your life on the server. It only brings everybody else down. I'm sorry your life is rough, but even when I'm sick and miserable I make light of the situation and try to remain entertaining! We're here to have fun! Follow the rule of Thumper: If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Maybe a bitching/venting area is in order like we had on the ME board? That way those that need to rant/vent can and those that don't want to play cheerleader, for lack of a better phrase, don't have to have it constantly slamming them in the face. There's there is a vast difference between sharing "I had a crap day" or "I don't feel well" with others in the Lobby and going into full long ass details.

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The don't be a dick rule covers a lot of ground in keeping people from going overboard. We all have a different opinion of when someone is walking a fine line (skirting the edge) or has crossed over into outright being a dick.

Example of something that annoyed me, a while back, was a fellow player spouting off in the Lobby with "How are all the straights, tonight?" It wasn't from a troll that had come simply to troll. That situation would have been easier to cope with, ignore for me and, eventually, ban hammer from the staff. Maybe, if it had come from a Troll, it would have been a water off the duck's back situation for me as many things are. However, the attitude projected had been one of condescension as if being a group of human beings trying to enjoy our common interests of writing and roleplay needed to be subdivided into Group X over here and Group Y over there.

TL;DR on this part? Some people are dicks and need to be told it. It doesn't matter if they go off whinging elsewhere because they aren't allowed to run roughshod over others. On the other hand, if you are going to be a dick to others, you have no room to complain when someone responds in kind.
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Something in this post rings out like a bell!

3. IC personas extending into the OOC channel. I don't mind being referred to by my character's name, because it sounds better than tacking on that ridiculous -mun to the end of a name, but I am not my character. Please do not mistake me for him. People who take their masks and wear them as for real skins OOCly weird me out.

Collie has become a nickname for me. I will answer to it, even in person, to those I have met via this activity. My name is Cathy, Collie is less common and more easily overheard in a crowd. It's rather like the mother that heard her son calling out her first name when he got lost in a store crowd. His logic when she asked why? Because every other woman in the place answered to Mom!

In the Lobby, I tend to use the character name of the person I'm addressing. Dris for instance, I know the player's name and have for years! However, back before we had Discord and a main SN attached to several of our characters, it was not considered polite or respectful to reveal the player out of respect of their privacy. I have adjusted to many things in using Discord, that one, well, I think in order to call someone by their chosen moniker, we need to be told what it is.
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Just one other thing ... I don't mind the gif wars, but some of the animated ones weird me out. Not necessarily because of content, but because of size and no way to shut them off. Is there a setting that I'm missing?

[Alasdair Galloway]

Can I ask what the goal of this thread is? If it's to help enhance rules, I'm all for it. But if this thread is just voicing complaints about things that people don't like, I'm not sure exactly what the point is.

I ask because if the goal is to set some rules, I don't think something like "don't be negative/don't complain/no excessive complaining" should be made a rule. It simply isn't enforceable. This to me falls more along the lines of personal preference. If you find one person to always be negative, nothing is stopping you from ignoring them, or talking about something else, or not reading the lobby for an hour because by then the subject will likely have been changed. To me this is covered under Eden's original post: Lobby Participation is Not Mandatory and Use Your Judgment and Read the Room

Let people complain. You don't have to engage them or read it. Saying "don't complain" doesn't help to make the lobby more welcoming or inclusive.

The big thing I would want to be made a rule that right now is more of a suggestion is that personal information shouldn't be allowed at all. Anything that is an identifier such as a picture of yourself, name, address, phone number, e-mail, etc. should not be posted in the lobby. The server has over 500 members and that information is going out to all of them, and we have no idea what people might do with it. It's really best that if you want to share something private, that it's done in DMs or on a private server for your safety.

Collie, yes there are settings for images in the Discord client. Under settings you have "Text & Images" where you can change options around gifs and the like. There is one where you can set gifs to not automatically play.

[PrlUnicorn]

Can I ask what the goal of this thread is? If it's to help enhance rules, I'm all for it. But if this thread is just voicing complaints about things that people don't like, I'm not sure exactly what the point is.

I ask because if the goal is to set some rules, I don't think something like "don't be negative/don't complain/no excessive complaining" should be made a rule. It simply isn't enforceable. This to me falls more along the lines of personal preference. If you find one person to always be negative, nothing is stopping you from ignoring them, or talking about something else, or not reading the lobby for an hour because by then the subject will likely have been changed. To me this is covered under Eden's original post: Lobby Participation is Not Mandatory and Use Your Judgment and Read the Room

Let people complain. You don't have to engage them or read it. Saying "don't complain" doesn't help to make the lobby more welcoming or inclusive.

The big thing I would want to be made a rule that right now is more of a suggestion is that personal information shouldn't be allowed at all. Anything that is an identifier such as a picture of yourself, name, address, phone number, e-mail, etc. should not be posted in the lobby. The server has over 500 members and that information is going out to all of them, and we have no idea what people might do with it. It's really best that if you want to share something private, that it's done in DMs or on a private server for your safety.

Collie, yes there are settings for images in the Discord client. Under settings you have "Text & Images" where you can change options around gifs and the like. There is one where you can set gifs to not automatically play.

Thanks for the info on the settings!

As for the rest, well, there's a difference making a negative comment on occasion and constantly being a negative presence. The latter can cause people to not want to participate in the Lobby at all. Isn't the point of the "don't be a dick" rule, to help prevent everyone's fun from being ruined? Constantly being a draining presence is being a dick to others. Unfortunately, as I already said, some people have to be told that they have crossed the line from sharing that their day sucked/they're sick to being a constant drain on others. Or as a friend likes to say, they need to be hit with a clue by 4.

I don't have an issue with a person of legal age sharing their first name and/or own picture or their pets' in the lobby. Underage people doing that (or posting pictures of one's children in group this large) can potentially lead to all kinds of issues. I do agree with you, Alasdair, that private messages are the place for mailing/home addresses and phone numbers. Emails are often available on this website via profiles; if they have it there, it's already public.

[Amaris]

I understand that everyone has opinions, so I shall put this up because honestly, this is very true to me. WE are a community; we each contribute to each other's lives. Regardless of whether you see this or not, it is true. Yes, sometimes people will complain, and you know why? Because they have friends on our server in our lobby both IC and OOC. We interact and talk and share. That happens when you put people together. Yes, there are many times I wish I didn't see something in the lobby, but a few things to remember: we are all human, and there is no pleasing every single one of us at every single moment of the day. There will be times we don't like something or we are rubbed the wrong way. This happens when you have 500+ people in a server together. The thing is, I have ridden a wave of different personalities for a year now, and I love it! I admit, I have had rough patches with some things, and I know people have an issue with me, but this is life. You can have an entire server that allows no OOC, and you'll still have people angry about something. We can not expect a server this big to cater to everyone all the time every minute of the day.

As for sharing moments in pictures and whatnot, again, we are a community we share our lives with each other: our imagination, our pain, and happiness. This is just what is going to happen when you play.

That being said an IC strategy room for those who would rather talk shop and keep things separate might be a great idea.

At the end of the day, this is the hugest server OOC chat area that I've ever seen, and we're gonna butt heads, but one very big practice we should look out for is to have respect.

This is just my opinion, thanks for reading.
Star

[Jake]

I have seen one or two people who want to just discuss how the play is, they want a specific mode of play, or want to discuss that, so, because it is so easy to jump room to room, maybe there could be an OOC Players Discussing Play chat? That would immediately put the people who are trying to work out a big storyline or just finding who's looking for what, or how the game is play into a defined spot where the people complaining about work aren't in.

I'm not really interested in the super specialized rooms I've seen others having, like "DnD ooc" and "talk Baby Yoda here" and "post cat butts here", and etc, but the "Rp planning" might work.

I'd like to touch on this one for a moment and play devil's advocate.

How is an RP planning channel different from Direct Messaging to other players? What is the benefit (as you see it) to having a public channel dedicated to RP planning/coordination?

I think the concept of a "Green Room" as it were is interesting, I'd just like to get a little more definition of it/how it would be used.

[Canaan]

Can I ask what the goal of this thread is? If it's to help enhance rules, I'm all for it. But if this thread is just voicing complaints about things that people don't like, I'm not sure exactly what the point is.

I ask because if the goal is to set some rules, I don't think something like "don't be negative/don't complain/no excessive complaining" should be made a rule. It simply isn't enforceable. ... Let people complain. You don't have to engage them or read it. Saying "don't complain" doesn't help to make the lobby more welcoming or inclusive.

I would love it to be made a rule and I'd argue that it would make the place more welcoming. The negativity is excessive -- to the point that it's driving people away from participation in the lobby, and for longer than "an hour". I myself have gone as far as ignoring the lobby for literal weeks because I was sick of it. And before someone tells me that I can choose not to engage with it, that is already what I do. It doesn't change the fact that I still have to read it. It still triggers this response of "oh, this again? Time to go be literally anywhere else." It's different than not enjoying a topic of sports or whatever fandom has sparked a 2 hour long debate that doesn't interest me. I'm happy to not participate in those instances. But when it's incessant negativity, nobody wants to hang around. I certainly won't name names, but I've got more DMs than I can count on one hand of people who've said they stay away from the lobby because of it. How many more feel the same way? How much of our community is so turned off that they find it easier to just not participate? Quite frankly, I'd rather the positive people hang around more often.

But Cathy says it way better than me, so I'll just quote her for posterity.

... there's a difference making a negative comment on occasion and constantly being a negative presence. The latter can cause people to not want to participate in the Lobby at all. Isn't the point of the "don't be a dick" rule, to help prevent everyone's fun from being ruined? Constantly being a draining presence is being a dick to others. Unfortunately, as I already said, some people have to be told that they have crossed the line from sharing that their day sucked/they're sick to being a constant drain on others. Or as a friend likes to say, they need to be hit with a clue by 4.

Positivity is what will keep most people around. I can't tell you how many times I've joined a new server, just to leave because their OOC chat is full of bitching and sex-saturated-everything.

Maybe a bitching/venting area is in order like we had on the ME board? That way those that need to rant/vent can and those that don't want to play cheerleader, for lack of a better phrase, don't have to have it constantly slamming them in the face.

If this is what it takes to cull the negativity, I'm all for it. I like having Bitchfest on ME, because it's a designated place for people to let loose. If I look in that channel, I know what I'm getting into, I know that I have enough in my emotional gas tank to be a cheerleader, as Cathy so aptly put it.

That being said an IC strategy room for those who would rather talk shop and keep things separate might be a great idea.

How is an RP planning channel different from Direct Messaging to other players? What is the benefit (as you see it) to having a public channel dedicated to RP planning/coordination?


I think the concept of a "Green Room" as it were is interesting, I'd just like to get a little more definition of it/how it would be used.

I'm not opposed to this, either. Because, as previously mentioned, people mute the lobby for various reasons. "Talking shop" in the lobby can often get lost in the scroll and nobody likes being tagged for simple things. I don't want to make a new group DM for every single live RP session. Having a place designated for live play oriented ooc chatter would be nice. I'd love for this option to be made available if we don't make a rule or new channel for negativity, because then I really could ignore the lobby forever if I wanted.

[Bailey Raptis]

As someone who is an infrequent (at best) participant in the Discord server's lobby, I was a bit nervous about posting here at first. It's easy to dismiss the opinions of someone who mostly just parachutes in to post cat photos or thank people for playing or running events on busy nights. But it's heartening to see others who feel and interact with the lobby similarly express similar thoughts to what I'm thinking, and it's with the hope that I might be serving as a voice for people who are unable, unwilling, or uncomfortable sharing their opinions that I share my own.

Different people structure their play and their lives differently, and I'm not saying that my way is the best or only way it should be, or that the lobby should be eliminated entirely. But when I log-on to the Discord server (and I don't have Discord on my smartphone either), it's usually because I'm going to play. I'm not a fan of the "always-on" Lobby; I typically have it muted. I preferred the FlashChat model where you were either in the lobby, or in a room in play, not both at the same time.

Because it's the very first channel at the top of our server, though, I do frequently see the most up-to-date lobby postings when I'm first logging on to the server. I agree with Pharlen-mun that, by and large, we do a pretty good job of being friendly when new people log in. But I also agree with Dris-mun and Canaan-mun there are a lot of things that come up routinely when I poke my head in there that are off-putting, to new and old players. I am 100% in agreement that there is a lot of complaining and negativity and overly personal information being shared in the lobby.

What do I want out of the lobby experience? What would make me participate more in the lobby? I honestly don't have a firm answer right now. I feel like it would be okay if it was just "Good morning", brief chit-chatting about people's days, quick sharing of interesting things (and cat photos), but not the over-long conversations and discussions of things that tend to dominate the lobby now. I would also love the lobby to be "opt-in", but I realize that's probably an up-hill battle, particularly since that's the first room new server members get shunted to. You would have to create a "welcome" channel for that, and I'm not sure there's any real interest in that.

I also don't want there to be a ton more channels -- I like how streamlined our server is, and I feel like players appreciate it compared to the wall of rooms I've seen in other places. I think a plotting channel would be fine, and I think an FAQ channel would be amazing: you should be able to lock it to only allow server admins to edit it, and put all the questions people ask typically when they first log-in there, and have a place to direct new server members when they first log-in instead of fielding the same questions in the lobby over and over again. Even a venting channel would be okay. We would still be way under the number of channels you typically see on a Discord server.

Ultimately, everybody is different in their approach to RP. What works for me might not work for you, but I hope we can all respect the choices everyone makes and keep this a truly collaborative hobby.

[Pharlen]

I have seen one or two people who want to just discuss how the play is, they want a specific mode of play, or want to discuss that, so, because it is so easy to jump room to room, maybe there could be an OOC Players Discussing Play chat? That would immediately put the people who are trying to work out a big storyline or just finding who's looking for what, or how the game is play into a defined spot where the people complaining about work aren't in.

I'm not really interested in the super specialized rooms I've seen others having, like "DnD ooc" and "talk Baby Yoda here" and "post cat butts here", and etc, but the "Rp planning" might work.

I'd like to touch on this one for a moment and play devil's advocate.

How is an RP planning channel different from Direct Messaging to other players? What is the benefit (as you see it) to having a public channel dedicated to RP planning/coordination?

I think the concept of a "Green Room" as it were is interesting, I'd just like to get a little more definition of it/how it would be used.

Well, because it's typical for play structure of any kind to get lost in the scroll, it would make it easier for someone who wants to know about the various open storylines. It would also be a neat way to meet up with everyone in a big scene (rather than in the lobby). As in Michelle's Giant Monster Finale, it would have been helpful to have that "green room" for people to get lined up for their places, and for Michelle to give details without having to scramble for a private message, and also for noncoms to sit and watch the "behind the scenes" going on, which is often a lot of humorous tension breakers.

And also a place where the people who are looking for "verbose" or "dice" players could also look for each other. or at least communicate.

[Canaan]

And also a place where the people who are looking for "verbose" or "dice" players could also look for each other. or at least communicate.

For what it's worth, I just want to say the above is not something I'd like to see taking up space. There are a million other servers out there for that kind of fishing. And if someone was looking for something specifically from our site, they could post an advert on the forum.

[Dillon T Jones]

Just my quick two cents here. I feel rules on the lobby, besides the most base rules of human interaction, is something that at its foundation goes against the spirit of the idea of writing as a whole.

It should be as open armed as possible. And, we have at our disposal, the very tools needed to make it so any personalities that we do not like do not bother us. Muting. This way everyone gets to enjoy their slice of pie. Everyone gets to vote with their attention. And a lot of the points made in certain ways, while valid, in this message string could be solved by just muting any ‘offenders’

As for other ideas on how to make more of the lobby, well, smarter people than I have made points better than I could on this post, so go read them. >=)

[PrlUnicorn]

I like the Green Room idea. One of those group DMs can also work if it doesn't become a thing. The big difference with it is that people need to be added to group DM and can't just wandered into the channel, read what's already there, and jump into the scene in progress.