Just a small opinion or thought

[Ammy Spiritor]

Can't help but notice the sudden increase in trade of ideas, clashes of opinions and differences going on. I don't speak much at all OCC but I was once encouraged by a few on ROH when I came back on to say things as opinions and thoughts since they are valuable no matter what it is or who says them. I will give this an organized attempt.

To start out with, I first got back into dueling because I saw the various posts and polls going up asking why former/current/new duelers were not dueling/left/came back. I gave my response and wont repeat it and make you waste time reading it word for word. My response if you want to read it.

What I saw was a single theme asking what is going on that has ROH on a decline and why is it difficult to get new players interested or staying. Many have answered this to varying degrees: RL, Different Tastes, Moving On, Difficulties with Community/Players, Matrices, Mechanics, Gaining Rank and so on.

So with the already known thoughts that have been voiced and mulled over by many and addressed and redressed, this all comes back to my mind after looking at the recent storm involving the DOS OL/Barons. I mean not to hurt or incite with what I say here and if it happens, I am truly sorry.

In light of the recent events going on in the ROH DOS OCC Forum I can't help but recall a comparison a friend of mine made about RDI/ROH when I asked why they stopped playing two year ago. The answer I got was this:

RDI is like the Middle School we all went to full of kids hitting puberty. Some know how to handle themselves, others don't and every day unless you know how to cope with the ups and downs of constant hormones you just hope you graduate quick and move on to adulthood.

ROH is like High School and is the part of the campus where all of the jocks hang out that many avoid that aren't into sports or constant bouts of trying to prove who is bigger than the other. Again, either you can cope with the ups and downs or hope to graduate and move on.

Whether my friend is right or wrong is not for me to say. Just sharing input. This input however has had me step back and look at DOS and just noticed most of it is geared to set one person up as King of the Mountain with a ring of shields to keep them King of the Mountain. Okay, Jock Game, Star Quarterback. It also seems that the mention of Team this or that builds up a Monopoly effect for titles, not just for DOS but DOF and DOM. By their very natures Monopoly's run the risk of being broken. Though only when rules are followed since they are listed for all, rules are rules.

What I am seeing though is DOS invokes and drives a superiority attitude to get rank, get tittles and then get the OL and rule it all. More Jock tactics and mindsets. So to people that are new or don't have a desire for sport mentality, they hit this funk and back away leaving more and more stagnation as well this concentrating effect of the Superiority mindset with more and more Alt's that just circulate around that perpetuate an 'I' feeling as they take up titles and ranks. This just leaves many, I feel, with a notion that this all a lot work and hassle for fictitious titles and rank with no real point but to thumb a nose at the loser.

Now before the flaming arrows fly in, yes I know there is the RP aspect side that can sometimes come out of Dueling but some of the displays I've been seeing around here just lends a feel that less genuine RP is being sought out and it's just ego fueling and snarking back and forth. *Middle School Again*

The Opinion part now on the table, here is the Thoughts that come to mind:

1. Why have an Overlord of Barons or a Council of Barons at all? RP and System Wise, Government is defunct, so one to rule over all Barons is pointless. So why have super top of the top fighter in DOS or DOF/DOM?

2. Why can we not make the high titles the limit and remove the top title in all three sports to allow better collaborative team RP play rather than the sneer and glare toxicity of territorial disputes that keep happening if your not in the mass train for 'Best of the Best So and So'. If you look, the Baronies seem to do great RP's for charities, RP events in RDI etc. Some of the Tower holders do great RP events that show wonderful team use of what they are in charge of, and even the the Gem holders in Fists can do great events that I see.

Yet, when I see the RP's from the top positions, it's often in cases of disputes of who's better, defending someone cause they got their feelings hurt, or just parties. Okay, so the king of the hill can just throw events, parties and harass those not sucking up to them. Hmm, anyone can do that without a title.

3. Why not drop the Over Lord into being just another Baron. I mean if you really want to have some good feudalism make it about small alliance struggles. Have it be alliances between Baronies against other baronies for some better RP usage. Makes threats and challenges from one baron to the next more meaningful.

4. Even though this is a forum around Sporting Venues, a 'One Big Ruler Over Them All' for each venue is shockingly disconnecting to anyone joining from RDI as a new player. The very core of RPing on RDI is respecting each other and working together, not the meting out of titles and rules to allow people to use the titles to tell others what to do. Even if it is just a game, getting the run around just because someone has clout is still not a pleasant experience for most people.

5. In our constant Real Life society of rising violence, perhaps many people are just burnt out on the notion of go smack someone with weapon/fist/spell. RDI faces it a lot when people see yet another disaster/murder/killing etc. It happens. Not to mention many find trusting a third person make calls on if their hits score or not sometimes too much faith to give in an age of instant give/take no middle man video games.

6. Lastly, dueling is a unique mindset/themed sport like Fencing/Point Sparing/MMA/SCA or Ren Fairs. Some people like it, but it is a unique culture that doesn't fit everyone that isn't into being serious. Many say it's just a game. It's for fun, but often times the only way to understand the dueling here on ROH, you really do have to pay attention or you just end up losing often and well, constant loss is a major turn off to anyone just wanting to be a casual player. The best way to sum this up is, RDI is like Super Mario Brothers while ROH is often like Final Fantasy Tactics or sometimes Punch Out. Get your tactics or combos wrong, dead. Just means both sides of the coin are geared more of one particular play style over the other.

Have a good night all.

[Ammy Spiritor]

It's been a little bit of fun dueling and being around the community some but I'm going to have part ways. Dueling and the community here is just not for me. The gearing of things is just set up to really not encourage wide participation, and when it is, it is then bottle necked into severity to make use of anything obtained pointless. Most progress gained can be wiped out too easily by a few losses and the Character in the duels really takes nothing away but a stark lesson in be the winner not the loser. I know many have counseled me to be patient and that it can take a year or so to get good in a particular type of duel, but let's face it. I'm a realist. I'd rather devote that much real time to learning a useful skill or talent in the real world and not sink that time into a fictional dueling system with nothing really to show or gain from it.

I wish you all the best with keeping the community going in some way, but the way things are structured, the mindsets, and the specific, rigid focus that is set up to survive in the community, best of luck on getting more new players. The Ring of Klytus Item has been returned to Duel Specter as the only item tied to my SN. Have fun all, see you around the RP venues or not. Have a good day.

Sincerely,
Ammy Loraine Spiritor

[Sabine]

The gearing of things is just set up to really not encourage wide participation, and when it is, it is then bottle necked into severity to make use of anything obtained pointless.

Most progress gained can be wiped out too easily by a few losses and the Character in the duels really takes nothing away but a stark lesson in be the winner not the loser.

Wasn't going to comment but I'm on a roll so, let's do this.

Not set up to encourage wide participation? I don't follow. Duels are welcome to ANYONE and everyone.

The Halloween tournament was open to anyone. It was a way for any person to do just TWO duels and come after a barony. I've never seen anything like it done before (and hope not to again, to be honest) but hear there are have been similar things in the past. It was/is great for non-title holding duelists and new RPers to get a chance at a title without grinding and waiting to "get good." So despite my own irritations and issues with it, I am happy for those who got to take advantage of it. I even told someone I wished Ammy had gotten a challenge in because I thought it was very well deserved for all of your efforts in dueling this summer and fall.

There are toss the loss nights, events where losses don't count, your losses get wiped pretty regularly (each cycle?), etc etc. The events and parties that happens are generally opened to anyone. Tournaments are set up for different ranks.

It takes time to get to know how to use the things you earn. I won the Panther's Claw in the Spring and didn't know until the week before I lost it that it actually *gave* me something. My bad for not asking.

I guess I just don't follow you.

Yes, it does take time to make rank. Some people want to put in the effort, some don't. Some want immediate gratification, some like to work their way up. Some are here casually. If you are someone who doesn't think a game is worth it and RL skills trump the game, cool.

But to be honest, I'm a little miffed about you throwing in the towel. It was nice to see new people trying things out and succeeding. I thought you were succeeding anyway...

It is encouraging to see you, Andu, and a few others giving it a go. I know it's hard not to focus on the numbers and wanting to be "awesome" or whatever. And believe me, that comes and goes. I went straight to the top in DoF and then plummeted and am slowly clawing my way back up.

If you don't want to waste your time or whatever, fine. I just thought you should know that your presence or lack of does impact others.

It was nice to have you.

[Goldglo]

your losses get wiped pretty regularly (each cycle?)

Just to quickly address this point - losses are now wiped out weekly. It used to be cyclically (3 months DoF/DoS, 2 months DoM) but now they reset each week across the board.

--Matt

[Sabine]

your losses get wiped pretty regularly (each cycle?)

Just to quickly address this point - losses are now wiped out weekly. It used to be cyclically (3 months DoF/DoS, 2 months DoM) but now they reset each week across the board.

--Matt

Awesome! Thanks Matt. I couldn't remember off the top of my head and have only been able to duel a little bit these past 2 cycles (my memory is fuzzy on mechanics and stuff.)

Well that's friggen awesome! I have a schedule change coming up (Again!) so that's a big encouragement to get some more duels in! <3

[Eden Parker]

Hey Ammy. I've been thinking a lot about the things you said about your frustrations. I was pretty surprised by your decision to step away from dueling because for the most part it seemed like you had such a great attitude and it seemed like things were going well for you as a starting duelist.

You totally killed it in the governor's cage match, you won the Ring of Klytus, you won the Spirit Staff, you had an active mentor (from my understanding) in DoS. That seems like a really good start to me!

I'm going to respond to this post, but I'm doing it here to keep from hijacking that thread any further which was mostly about Hope's idea.

I'm going to go point by point here, cause I think it will be helpful to try to give you some feedback on your ideas. I'm skipping some of the DoS-centric ideas since that's not my sport (as in it's not my favorite matrix so I don't DoS that often). You might be surprised that I consider myself a fairly new dueler, but I do, and since I have expressed my own concerns about some things in the past, I think it might be helpful to share ideas.

1. Losses. Yeah. Loss sucks. A lot. So very much. That said, I don't think I've ever thought that losses needed to be recorded differently. To me it's more of a personality thing---can I, the player, find a way to make this fun while I continue to learn and lose? It took me about a year to start meaningfully putting together some wins. I got a lot of help by taking advantage of the opportunities offered in different sports (loss forgiveness nights, wins added tournaments, etc.). But it wasn't easy. We all know it's not easy, even if it seems like we don't care. We really do respect the struggle.

But I don't think the recording of losses needs to change. Even knowing how hard it it is. It's about how you play the game. If you can find a way to still have fun even if you're losing, then you might be in it for the long haul. If not, then this might not be for you. And it's okay to know that about yourself.

2. I think this might be about the most recent Trick or Treat tournament. I won't touch that but to say I was disappointed for you that your challenge didn't work out. I can totally understand being frustrated by your stroke of bad luck there. But having been around for a year and a half now, one thing I know for sure is that there is no end to the fun tournaments and promos we do here. I really do understand your frustration. But new opportunities for fun things are always around the corner.

3. DoS is a small matrix and it is the land of 50/50s. That's something I've learned about DoS. As I mentioned above, I prefer the creativity of DoM and the hard logic of DoF. So, I just don't DoS that much. Like Matt said in the other thread, the variety among the matrices means that we can all try different kinds of sports. I don't think I'd want all the sports to be the same. Plus, as far as moves go, the matrix is really just a suggestion. You can describe anything you want.

6. Callers. Oh man. This just makes me super sad. I think the reality is that this cannot ever change. There simply aren't enough participants to have callers who are not also duelers or players. I mean if the issue is people concerned that OOC issues between players will affect the impartiality of the calling, then the only way to make those concerned comfortable would be if callers were not also players or duelists on RDI and RoH. These would have to be magical people who do not participate in the community in any way other than calling? It's simply not possible.

What is possible is if we asked for and received a little trust from the community. I think I would ask anyone who had reservations to really think through how bias might actually affect a duel. And if they have any reason to believe an actual duel was actually affected by bias, I'd encourage them to contact the caller coordinator to help clear things up. As a caller, the last thing I want is for someone to think something I did was unfair or biased. I'd rather talk it over and address it openly so everyone can feel comfortable again. I think open communication is always more valuable than rumor, whispers, and innuendo.

7. Do you have any ideas for this? I'm having trouble imagining what these "tangible rewards" of holding a title could be. I'm not going to lie, I haven't spent a lot of time exploring the histories of all the titles on the site, but even since I've been here there have been some pretty cool storylines written using the opals, baronies, and towers.

8. Alts. I think this is a huge challenge. It is definitely unsettling and it's been discussed before. And even though it's something I myself raised as a concern, I still don't know if even any of the suggestions I made at the time were helpful, possible, or even remotely helped mitigate the issue. I think what Apple said in the other thread is fair--that longtime players should be allowed to play the game as they see fit. Based on the way you phrased your comment---that "potential openings" for new players are "taken up by someone who has already played the game"---it sounds like this is about titles rather than the challenge of facing alts during regulation. On that basis, I would just suggest that newer duelers try not to get too hung up looking over their heads and thinking about which alt chars hold which titles. Yes, it can be a little discouraging. But when you're ready to go after titles, the opportunities will be there, regardless of alts.

9. RDI vs. RoH RP. I like Matt's answer to this.

10. Non-writers. I think we try to have a little something for everyone here. Does that mean some people won't get to take advantage of some of the different things on offer? Sure. But that's kind of the way it goes. I think the goal is to keep trying different things and seeing what appeals to people.


Okay, so that was a lot of point-by-point response. Overall, Ammy, I'm really sorry that you ultimately didn't have a positive experience with dueling. I enjoyed the times that we got to play together. I especially enjoyed your creativity in your magic duels, and Ammy's good humor. Ammy's masked costume during the PC brawl tournament was a highlight. Like Sabine put so simply and so well, it was nice to have you.

[Ammy Spiritor]

I've had time to reflect on things quite a bit today. It is usually with good reason I keep my mouth shut as often taking what is in my head and putting it onto the screen in OCC can quite honestly go awry. I am not ducking out of what I said or what I had expressed. I do wish to express something here and maybe salvage somewhat a bit of hope in people seeing me again in the rings.

I deal with a lot of stress in real life. Everyone does. Problem is, I've been a bit quiet on the severity of things but the stress has caused me to have medical problems in real life in the form of seizures that happen every day. At one point in my life, I had a decent way to flip between fictional and personal. The stress or PTSD's that are causing my issues this year which has flipped my life upside down has completely shredded what was left of this ability. As anyone can see and read, I've quite single handedly made a mess with opinions best kept unsaid spurred by things that in the early years of RP would not have even bothered me. So, currently, in my present state of mind, I just can't handle ROH or RDI that much anymore. I've done a lot on RDI for 8 years and a good chunk was alone, by myself as many did not like consorting with anthro characters, so it was really nice playing with others for a while for once. This whole outburst issue, it's not aimed at people personally or really shouldn't be if it is taken that way. I and Ammy can just only take so much before we break from stress.

So at some point, I hope to the gods, you will see me return to dueling and things, but I am beside myself daily fighting my mind as a daily enemy that comes and goes when it wants to. Today was a severe sign that I lost a battle and let it pass beyond my barriers. I am not fit anymore to trust myself for a while. The possibilities and potentials in the events, role plays and more are there, and several in the other thread had a good point. The problems aren't the system or the amount of RP potential. It lies at the feet of my own tired mind. So perhaps in a few months or so, I may try to return once I know I can properly trust my mind to not lose sight of where reality/fiction and perceived/real issues stand or cross. I would offer to step back in to duel but already feel to do so would mean I have nothing to my words. I think I just need some away time to honestly try to get a long lifetime of running from my past to stop and just take on the demons that have only gotten bigger from my running.

The only thing I can add to my experience is this. Many of you have been very supportive, but something was lacking and it wasn't from you all. I had really little to no support from many that are close to Ammy in RP's when she duels and that just dug deeper and deeper into my current stress. It felt like dueling was making me an outcast on RDI. I hope in time that issue won't happen anymore.

So with that said, I would like to take back a bit of sting in my parting words and say that for now, I'm going away for a bit, but hoping to come back when I am just a better person.

[Goldglo]

Real life should always win over RP; please take care of yourself. We'll of course welcome you back when you're ready to return!

--Matt

[Sabine]

^^^

When you feel you're ready for it, we'll still be here. Try not to be too hard on yourself.

-B

[Kenzi]

Ammy,

Knowing your limitations and what you need in order to have good mental health is a positive sign that you haven't lost reality. The fact that you are following through and actually giving yourself that time to de-stress and heal is a great first step.

One thing I think many of us, in this community, can understand and fully empathize with is the anxiety you're experiencing. You're not as alone as you think you are. Just remember that.

Depression and anxiety can suck you into this vortex of hopelessness and loneliness and cause you to believe that no one can possibly understand and that you will always feel alone. It deals in extremes. I want you to really pay attention to what has transpired over the past couple of days. Many people have voiced concern, care, and acceptance. Keep this in mind as you make your journey towards good mental health. You are not alone. Good luck!

P.S. I'm the craziest of this entire bunch of crazies so I clearly know what I'm talking about!