A Squire for the Overlord

[Spell]

The Squire can challenge a Renegade Baron only after being ranked Grand Master (Using the cycle Grant)

This doesn't seem like much of a perk since the grant can be given to anyone at any rank and they can challenge. It's only a burden on the Squire. Why become the squire and get the grant if you have to wait for GM? You can be a swordsman and be rewarded the grant without all the extra work. I personally liked the non-grant version.

How about an OL can choose to have a squire OR give out a grant, once per cycle? Treat the squireship itself as a grant. The squire can be kept throughout the cycle once chosen and not be taken off if an OL is dethroned.

One path = quick and easy challenge right.
Second path = help your friend or new player rank up and allow them to challenge once they reach GM.

[JewellRavenlock]

How about an OL can choose to have a squire OR give out a grant, once per cycle? Treat the squireship itself as a grant. The squire can be kept throughout the cycle once chosen and not be taken off if an OL is dethroned.

I'm not very good at thinking through the implications on overall rules and game mechanics, but I found this idea appealing.

[PrlUnicorn]

I like the idea of the Overlord having a Squire.
I'm in agreement with Talon+Squire stacking up to 4 fancies total and Challenge Rights at GM for said Squire.

[Sylus Kurgen]

Just because it hasn't come up...

I like the idea of the Overlord's Squire receiving more of a defensive item like a vambrace or shield.

Could just be that I like the imagery of shield bashing.

[Spell]

Just because it hasn't come up...

I like the idea of the Overlord's Squire receiving more of a defensive item like a vambrace or shield.

Could just be that I like the imagery of shield bashing.

Overlord Squire.
+2 mods for being Squire. Cap at 4 Fancies.
Can't use the Talon with this. If you want to win the talon, go ahead, but you can't use the boost.
Can't benefit from Overlord Grants.
Can challenge at Grandmaster.

Give 'em a shield and sword to show why they get two. BAM!

[PrlUnicorn]

Give 'em a shield and sword to show why they get two. BAM!

That!

[Hope]

Give the Overlord Squire +2 mods, cap them at 4, no challenge rights. The incentive to win the Talon is for the Talon taking participation in the next WLT. They get a badass sword/shield combo but again I'd like to stress if you're giving them free reign to challenge Renegades, you're looking at at least 2 per cycle since it's not the grant in this scenario. This is a lot of change proposed in a small package. Something I'd think of doing is if this goes through maybe allow another Renegade to intercede on the Squire's challenge and the Overlord if present can duel them, kind of reverse of an Overlord intercession

Edit: to clarify what I meant by "at least 2 per cycle" I mean free challenges vs Renegade Barons, if the OL Squire had a challenge available and it did not consume the Grant.

Edit 2: removed sentence fragment

[Spell]

I wanted to point out that the Squire being given +2 mods was just an idea of mine. Sylus hasn't posted anything about a possibility of the OL Squire getting a 2 mod benefit from the position.

To broaden it.

OL Squire isn't allowed to use the Talon while they are squire. That's the current intended idea, right? I'd assume they couldn't benefit from Factions if that is implemented as well. Giving them +2 mods for being the squire is a nice trade off ( plus a sword / shield set just seems cool to me ). tbh I don't think Squires should be able to use a Faction benefit either, but this is the wrong thread for that. But since a possible overlap could come from OL Squireship, it's worth bringing up I guess. If you have a squireship then gaining a benefit from a faction seems pointless, since you have a Talon of Redwin-lite that allows you a fancy, can stack with the Talon, and you aren't required to have a Baron or the Overlord sit there and watch over your duels. So it should be one or the other. A static mod you can use at any time, or a mod that requires your faction being there; if the faction rule does get implemented. So the OL Squire having +2 mods gives a reason why the talon cannot stack with it.

Queen does raise a good question though. If a OL Squire is allowed to challenge at Grand Master, is it treated like a normal WL's challenge right? Do they gain 2 per cycle? Or is it simply 1 until they graduate from Squire and become a full fledged Warlord? One challenge right seems more fair since they aren't exactly Warlords yet.

Also bringing up due to Queen. If this does happen, will there be a renegade benefit as well? As time passes there seems to be less and less reason to be a renegade and more and more reason to be loyal.

[PrlUnicorn]

What about one GM OL Squire challenge right per cycle and they remain eligible for the grant or two challenge rights per cycle and not be eligible for the grant?

[Spell]

What about one GM OL Squire challenge right per cycle and they remain eligible for the grant or two challenge rights per cycle and not be eligible for the grant?

Could go one challenge right that isn't part of possible Warlord challenge rights. Let's say they challenge at GM as a squire, they fail, they then become WL and graduate from squire; they still have their 2 WL challenge rights and the GM/Squire one didn't count toward it.

[Sylus Kurgen]

Things are starting to get crazy again. Love the enthusiasm though.

Once again..here's where I'm leaning and this is what I want to focus on. Trying to take bits and pieces from several suggestions with balance addressed.

OL Squire
1. +1 Mod Bonus, does NOT stack with Talon like other Squires

2. Can challenge a Renegade Baron upon reaching the rank of GM, but if all ready a GM, ineligible. This is more my thought that the Squire should still have to EARN the right to challenge. Not just accept the position.

a)Renegade Baron's Squire can intercede to block the OL Squire's challenge as a Loyalty Perk.

b)Another Renegade Baron can intercede to block the OL's Squire should the challenged Baron NOT have a Squire. These two instances being on the simple grounds that the Squire is not a Warlord, Loyal Baron, nor is the Squire using a grant.

3. Squire receives a Sword and Shield as part of their station. Thoughts on types? Gladius and Buckler? Bastard Sword and Kite Shield?

4. What makes the items unique like other Squire weapons?

[Spell]

OL Squire
1. +1 Mod Bonus, does NOT stack with Talon like other Squires

Sounds good.

2. Can challenge a Renegade Baron upon reaching the rank of GM, but if all ready a GM, ineligible. This is more my thought that the Squire should still have to EARN the right to challenge. Not just accept the position.

How about a clause where the OL Squire must be chosen from a swordsman or below? Then there would be no need to worry about this.

a)Renegade Baron's Squire can intercede to block the OL Squire's challenge as a Loyalty Perk.

b)Another Renegade Baron can intercede to block the OL's Squire should the challenged Baron NOT have a Squire. These two instances being on the simple grounds that the Squire is not a Warlord, Loyal Baron, nor is the Squire using a grant.

Love it. It's only fair if an OL Squire can challenge.

3. Squire receives a Sword and Shield as part of their station. Thoughts on types? Gladius and Buckler? Bastard Sword and Kite Shield?

4. What makes the items unique like other Squire weapons?

Impervious to damage? Like the weapons are enchanted to not take damage. The shield could also be feathertouched so it doesn't weigh anything, so it feels like their arm is freely moving when defending? Blade is enchanted with an element of the squires choice? Use it as a pure RP device.

[Kalamere]

There are currently a grand total of 7 possible squires. Because they are linked to challangable titles which turn over and because not everyone is even interested in having a squire, I'd say the average on hand is generally 4 actual squires in the game. Sometimes a couple more, sometimes a couple less. I can't recall when I've seen all 7 positions filled though.

It is because of this I felt the adition of an OL squire and another mentee slot for a low ranked character would be a good thing. Well, that and I could never really wrap my head around a reason why the barons would get squires but the OL wouldn't.

It is also because of this, however, that I can't see a need to make the OL's squire any different from the others. Why differentiate a thing that is already rare to begin with?

We're talking about a slot that will typically be held for less than 2 months. (Median Overlord tenure over the last 5 years is approximately 57 days. If you assume it takes a week or week and a half to RP around picking up a squire and get them officially on the standings, we're looking at about 6 weeks of mentorship here... which also begs the question, if you insist of giving a challenge right, what happens when the OL gets ousted while there's a squire challenge pending?)

I'm for the squire, I am, I just don't think it should be a super squire.

* It is a single character in the game
* It is generally going to last only 4-6 weeks.
* There are already very few of the the "normal" squires
* It's something G has said no to for 8 years and, while I have no idea if he actually cares, kinda feels like delivering a slap in the face to not only go ahead with it but to then also add extra bells and whistles.

Just make it a squire and call it a day... then get on to looking at rules that could impact more than 1 person at a time.

Also as to:

3. Squire receives a Sword and Shield as part of their station. Thoughts on types? Gladius and Buckler? Bastard Sword and Kite Shield?
4. What makes the items unique like other Squire weapons?

Personally I'd rather see the mechanics of a thing get locked down before delving into the IC aspects. At this stage it's just a distraction.

[Hope]

I just want to piggy back real quick off Kal's last post and then let other everyone else chime in. I'm having fun as I'm assuming most of you are toying with theorycrafting about these topics but realistically I still am kind of in the dark on this one aspect of the OL Squire.

Why would they even be allowed to challenge a Renegade Baron? If there's the grant involved okay that's fine but.. why is it even being considered? Is there a reason? Are there not enough challenges? Is it just something to make them feel special and stand out? I just really don't see the need for it at all.

[PrlUnicorn]

I just want to piggy back real quick off Kal's last post and then let other everyone else chime in. I'm having fun as I'm assuming most of you are toying with theorycrafting about these topics but realistically I still am kind of in the dark on this one aspect of the OL Squire.

Why would they even be allowed to challenge a Renegade Baron? If there's the grant involved okay that's fine but.. why is it even being considered? Is there a reason? Are there not enough challenges? Is it just something to make them feel special and stand out? I just really don't see the need for it at all.

When the Squire Rules were in their infancy, any Squire that gained the rank of GM was given challenge rights. This plays into the achievement for Apt Pupil which is earned for winning a title as a Squire. Without that Squire rule still in place, unless a grant is offered, it would be difficult if not impossible to gain a DoS tile as a Squire. (I'm aware that it could also apply to gaining an Opal or Tower) I think it goes without saying that the Squire of an Overlord would avoid challenging a Loyal out of respect for their mentor. Perhaps this is a nod to that older format?