IFL Hiatus

[Sabine]

I will miss IFL thins year. it is the event in 2015 that got me interested in dueling and my first season in 2016 was a blast. I love that it is multiple sports and really everything else about it. It's my favorite event and the one I look forward to.

It will be missed for sure, but you've got to do what you've got to do. Thanks for all your hard work.

Do you mean Hydra? IFL is just fists. Hydra is all sports.

Yes and No lol. This is why I should not post before my coffee and right when I wake up.

I DO like that Hydra has all sports, that's a lot of fun.

But I think where I meant to go is IFL is my favorite because of how you rotate out players and just the whole concept of each fight having different points and stuff is awesome to me.

Wow my morning brain really screwed that up. Thanks for getting me back on track.

[Nigel Alder]

I'd kinda like to see the conversation turn from debating whether or not there was burn out to actually discussing it. I don't think the sample size of respondents we have in this thread is representative enough of the entire community that participated in IFL, just from this last season alone, to determine that there was relief or not, or people experienced burnout at the end, beginning, or middle.

From my own personal experience? I took a long hiatus from RP due to personal reasons. IFL was what forced me out of my rabbit hole. I have to say it got me involved again in the FFRP community associated with this site and Dragonsmark that I had been absent from. Forming Team Lazerrick allowed me to form not just writing partnerships with people I had never interacted with before, but get to know some of the greatest friends I've made in my decades of participating in this hobby. When IFL was over I felt loss. At the end of the day I even started a really enjoyable writing partnership with someone I would have never encountered in live play had it not been for watching them during IFL matches with their team.

This might only be my isolated experience, but it sounds like from what I'm hearing from Cor and King is that they enjoyed IFL too and felt no relief when it was over.

In the same vein of discussion and doing what's best for the community, I think allowing the community to discuss it before being completely denied the ability to participate in IFL would have been nice. After having such a great experience last year my team had already made plans on how to enjoy IFL even more this season.

I get that there might be some out there who felt relief when IFL was over. Maybe some people felt burntout because they spread themselves too thin. But what about us few who don't participate in regulation or other events and are holding out for IFL because that's the event we enjoyed the most?

I really would have liked to see this thread start off with "How do you all feel about these dueling leagues happening so often every year? Is there something we can change to make it more enjoyable? Can we reduce the number of matches per week in IFL to prevent people being overwhelmed? Can we cut the season down so each team only faces each other (x amount of times)?"

Your feelings are valid Kal. Maybe more valid than any others because you've run IFL for so long and are a big part of the reason why it is so enjoyable. But it would have been nice to actually get a real discussion on this, and really get the pulse and opinion of the community on it, before just being told that since it seemed like there was relief when it was over its not being held this year.

[JewellRavenlock]

Without regulation dueling, how long would leagues survive?

Yes, the reasons that regulation is currently dead (or slightly revived from it's very dead state) go beyond burn out from leagues. That doesn't change the fact that the leagues do help kill regulation.

And if regulation dies, will there be leagues? Will there be a dueling community to form leagues?

It's fine that some people prefer leagues and some people prefer regulation. I personally enjoy both.

Regulation can exist without team dueling. It's what this community was formed on. Without it, the community would never be the same.

Can team dueling exist without regulation?

[Corlanthis]

Without regulation dueling, how long would leagues survive?

Yes, the reasons that regulation is currently dead (or slightly revived from it's very dead state) go beyond burn out from leagues. That doesn't change the fact that the leagues do help kill regulation.

And if regulation dies, will there be leagues? Will there be a dueling community to form leagues?

It's fine that some people prefer leagues and some people prefer regulation. I personally enjoy both.

Regulation can exist without team dueling. It's what this community was formed on. Without it, the community would never be the same.

Can team dueling exist without regulation?

People keep saying this. Can we get some citations if we're throwing it around as a fact?

[JewellRavenlock]

Citations for what, Cor?

I said the reasons regulation is dead go beyond burn out.

[Andrea Anderson]

Yes, the reasons that regulation is currently dead (or slightly revived from it's very dead state) go beyond burn out from leagues. That doesn't change the fact that the leagues do help kill regulation.

I'd like to see the numbers to your claim.

[Corlanthis]

Citations for the notion that the idea that Leagues hurt regulation hurts Leagues.

Is there anything other then anecdotal evidence that Leagues have a demonstrable long-term effect on Regulation dueling?

Is there anything other than anecdotal evidence that dueling numbers are "better" in the absence of Leagues?

Is there isn't, maybe we need to stop worry about the problems that don't actually exist the way we're using them.

[Nigel Alder]

Without regulation dueling, how long would leagues survive?

Yes, the reasons that regulation is currently dead (or slightly revived from it's very dead state) go beyond burn out from leagues. That doesn't change the fact that the leagues do help kill regulation.

And if regulation dies, will there be leagues? Will there be a dueling community to form leagues?

It's fine that some people prefer leagues and some people prefer regulation. I personally enjoy both.

Regulation can exist without team dueling. It's what this community was formed on. Without it, the community would never be the same.

Can team dueling exist without regulation?

I'm kinda confused as to whether or not this was in response to me?

My point wasn't regulation versus leagues.

My point was, why wasn't it brought to the community to speak about how we felt about IFL and all the leagues before we were denied the choice to participate in IFL?

And if Kal felt, personally, that people were burnt out after IFL or relieved or that IFL wasn't a positive experience then why isn't the alternative he take a step back and someone else runs it for this season?

[JewellRavenlock]

It wasn't really in response to you Nigel as much as it was to the whole thread (and the other one). Sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. I totally understand where you're coming from.

As far as citations? I don't really do math. I just play in the rooms almost every night, fight the same few people, or listen to the crickets.

[Andrea Anderson]

As far as citations? I don't really do math. I just play in the rooms almost every night, fight the same few people, or listen to the crickets.

It's not right to blame leagues for the drop in activity then without proof to the claim.

I've no issue finding duelists to fight, and I sure don't mind fighting the same pool of people over and over again. I'm glad they come out and support the community.

And if Kal felt, personally, that people were burnt out after IFL or relieved or that IFL wasn't a positive experience then why isn't the alternative he take a step back and someone else runs it for this season?

That would be nice. It's stressful to run multi-week events, so having another take the reins wouldn't be a bad option.

[Sabine]

As far as citations? I don't really do math. I just play in the rooms almost every night, fight the same few people, or listen to the crickets.

It's not right to blame leagues for the drop in activity then without proof to the claim.

I've no issue finding duelists to fight, and I sure don't mind fighting the same pool of people over and over again. I'm glad they come out and support the community.

Side Point and no offense meant but if we're being honest...

It can be daunting to go in a room and see YOU (or the other 3-4 people typically there) and no one else because when you look at WoLs and ranks, it feels hopeless... Like gees I'll never rank up if I am always fighting "the best." It can be hard not to feel like chicken poop and nothing but an easy win for a more experienced duelist.

Or at least I had those feelings and sometimes still do! Yeah it's just part of the process, but it's still one of those things that can be hard. It would be nice to see more of a variety of duelists and ranks. But, we can't force that to happen.

[JewellRavenlock]

We can't force it to happen, and if new people show up during team dueling, they're unlikely to stick around.

So I guess we'll just go duel in a circle some more.

ETA: Lack of evidence of a circumstance doesn't make its inverse true by the way.

[Andrea Anderson]

Side Point and no offense meant but if we're being honest...

It can be daunting to go in a room and see YOU (or the other 3-4 people typically there) and no one else because when you look at WoLs and ranks, it feels hopeless... Like gees I'll never rank up if I am always fighting "the best." It can be hard not to feel like chicken poop and nothing but an easy win for a more experienced duelist.

Or at least I had those feelings and sometimes still do! Yeah it's just part of the process, but it's still one of those things that can be hard. It would be nice to see more of a variety of duelists and ranks. But, we can't force that to happen.

That's picking and choosing and goes against the narrative that there aren't people around to duel. If someone is purposely dodging others then the complaint of "there's only the same people I duel" goes out the window. There's the option of asking for them to fight at your rank. Which I usually bring up to players I see who might be new. Me, personally though, I usually come around on low ranks. High rank play is boring tbh.

ETA: Lack of evidence of a circumstance doesn't make its inverse true by the way.

Making bold claims without any proof only skews lurkers thoughts. They might take your comment at face value and think it's the truth.

We can't force it to happen, and if new people show up during team dueling, they're unlikely to stick around.

How so? They are afforded the opportunities to duel, it is not the leagues fault that players choose to cheer instead of dueling them. Why is the burden and blame being placed on the league? Do we not have free will?

[Sabine]

I don't know how we could get numbers since there wouldn't be anything recent enough to compare it to. Like December this year versus what... December a few years ago when there was no IFL?

All we can go by is the fact that I think many of us remember the duels being empty during Hydra and IFL in particular. Heck some nights callers wouldn't even bother!

It seems like a good majority do agree that league stuff tends to lessen other dueling participation.

I don't think that is to pick on league stuff because it has it's own positives (like irregular, oldies, and new duelists being involved in it too!)

I think it's more a discussion of, can we find balance while having it all? Can we have league stuff and still have well supported non-league duels? Are people truly too burnt out? Is it better to focus on all of it or just the leagues or just the regular duels?

It's good to think about these things. Maybe nothing will change, maybe things will go to a rotation.

If anything, I have learned that it's OKAY to take a step back. I was going to force myself to do all the things again this year but now I feel better knowing that it's okay to pick and choose.

Maybe those others who don't do the league stuff this year will want to do regular duels with me.

[Sabine]

Side Point and no offense meant but if we're being honest...

It can be daunting to go in a room and see YOU (or the other 3-4 people typically there) and no one else because when you look at WoLs and ranks, it feels hopeless... Like gees I'll never rank up if I am always fighting "the best." It can be hard not to feel like chicken poop and nothing but an easy win for a more experienced duelist.

Or at least I had those feelings and sometimes still do! Yeah it's just part of the process, but it's still one of those things that can be hard. It would be nice to see more of a variety of duelists and ranks. But, we can't force that to happen.

That's picking and choosing and goes against the narrative that there aren't people around to duel. If someone is purposely dodging others then the complaint of "there's only the same people I duel" goes out the window. There's the option of asking for them to fight at your rank. Which I usually bring up to players I see who might be new. Me, personally though, I usually come around on low ranks. High rank play is boring tbh.

I'm not saying I DO pick or choose, obviously I fought all of you guys because I ranked up and challenged within three months or so.

I'm just saying, it can be daunting. It would be nice to have a bigger pool of people to duel through out the week. I can absolutely see why it would be attractive.