DoF PC Wins

[Luna Eva]

Is there a reason why the fights in the Panther's Claw tournament don't count towards a fighter's DoF record?

I looked to see if this had been discussed before and I didn't see it, so feel free to just point me towards the thread if it's already been discussed since I'm new around here and don't want to be repeating something.

I think I could see why maybe you wouldn't want the losses to count since the fighters in the tournament don't get to choose their matchups. But maybe at least the wins could count?

Fighters get to fight at their rank, so they get the benefit of their DoF records when they fight their opponents during the tournament. If the purpose of the tournament is to encourage and buoy newer (or perhaps just lower-ranked) fighters (is it?), wouldn't it be helpful to allow them to at least count their wins?

Obviously, I'm asking because I have an interest in this. I think last night's PC was the second time where I've been lucky to go pretty far in the tournament, while at the same time my record could really use the wins.

Can anyone help me out with this?

[DemiBob]

Few tournaments let you apply your wins to your official record, unless they state otherwise. For the PC, it would be possible for someone with enough WoL to graduate to Emerald if they win the tournament. This would give someone in 2nd (or possibly lower) place the mod item, which could be weird and require additional rules.

Honestly, if you can go far in a tournament, you should be able to rank up in normal duels. You obviously have the skill.

[Andrea Anderson]

For the PC, it would be possible for someone with enough WoL to graduate to Emerald if they win the tournament.

Unless the WoL bonus were cut off to those who are of Sapphire rank, or at least ends at a set WoL amount; like 13 WoL's on the standings would be the cutoff point for those able to gain any sort of WoL prize points from the PC. Sapphires can't use the PC anyway, since a duelist can't go past 5 mods *unless* they are Emerald ( or gain an Opal while at a lower rank through a special tournament.)

Is there a reason why the fights in the Panther's Claw tournament don't count towards a fighter's DoF record?

IIRC, the reason why G and I decided that WoLs could be offered in the Talon of Redwin tournament was because the Tournament had been set to always be Single Elimination, and because of that the WoL gain wouldn't be huge. Also to allow the possibility for newer players to gain buffer to play around with. It'd be nice to see the Panther's Claw gain the same, or something like it, prize-pool -- but DoF is also currently the most popular sport ( it seems, I could be wrong ), so I'm left wondering if awarding WoLs would be good or not..

[DemiBob]

Sapphires can't use the PC anyway

Which raises the question why they can enter the tournament, but I suppose it helps if they drop down to Ruby or lower.

[Andrea Anderson]

Sapphires can't use the PC anyway

Which raises the question why they can enter the tournament, but I suppose it helps if they drop down to Ruby or lower.

It's an odd thing, but I think that's why. Sapphires are usually going to shoot up to Emerald or get dropped down to Ruby from trying. I'm forgetting who exactly said that to me once.

[Luna Eva]

It took me a few minutes to follow what you guys were saying, which I think is a reflection of how new I am to the sport and why I'm glad I asked. I see what you're saying now, and that is definitely a potential answer to my question. Thanks for responding.

[Maria Graziano]

IIRC, the reason why G and I decided that WoLs could be offered in the Talon of Redwin tournament was because the Tournament had been set to always be Single Elimination, and because of that the WoL gain wouldn't be huge. Also to allow the possibility for newer players to gain buffer to play around with. It'd be nice to see the Panther's Claw gain the same, or something like it, prize-pool -- but DoF is also currently the most popular sport ( it seems, I could be wrong ), so I'm left wondering if awarding WoLs would be good or not..

I just wanted to add in that this makes me super happy. When I originally created the ToR I wanted the wins to count and the loss to be tossed but it was shot down pretty quickly. It makes me happy that it is now exactly how I originally wanted it.

It was set-up at a single elimination tournament because tournaments in the early days of DoS were single elim. Since the tournament was supposed to honor an older duelist, someone (I think Jake? or Kal?) made the suggestion that it be single elimination. It was a great idea. It also keeps the tournament structure easy to understand for new players.

I think it would be nice to see this feature in the PC tournament even if it means that it does have to be single elimination or, as was suggested above, a prize pool of WoL if it isn't single elim. Tournament dueling to me is such a pain. I'm a one duel a night and then I get distracted by something shiny sort of player but I definitely would be interested in the PC tournament if my wins counted and my loss was tossed. It's a good way to make yourself get serious and duel your way through an evening.

Anyway, interesting suggestion!

[JewellRavenlock]

Having the wins count for ToR and the losses tossed is a HUGE appeal, at least for me personally. I'm not a fan of more than one duel a night (it makes me sleepy), but there's a reason I've tried to make every ToR for the last year. The last one had almost got me to Warlord.

Not saying I avoid the PC because of the lack of wins (it's more of a day/timing thing for PC), but I think having the wins count could draw a bigger crowd of legitimately new duelists.

[Capistrano]

I don't necessarily think being able to go far in a tournament built for lower ranks means someone is ready to take on the Emeralds, Opals, and Diamonds of the Outback. If my count is correct (and correct me if not), we had six glasses, one jade, three rubies, and two sapphires participating in the most recent Panther's Claw. I'd argue that fights against lower ranks are different than fights against higher ranks.

I hadn't even realized that the Talon had been re-calibrated to allow participants to keep their wins on their record without taking the losses. I remember the all-ranks tournaments in DoM had started doing so some time ago. Also, IIRC correctly, the Ring of Klytus is handed out to the holder of the highest non-mage win percentage -- there have been times, looking at the records, where a mage held the highest win percentage in a cycle, but because of the rules for the Ring, it skipped over them.

TL;DR: I don't think it's the worst thing in the world for PC to let people keep their WoL, because there's still a learning curve when you gain rank in figuring out how to use mods, and how to fight against those who have mods. I don't think it unbalances the game.

[Sabine]

I don't know if it's an option for all annual/semi/quarterly events/tournaments but I do love when we get penalty free losses and our wins count for WoL.

Like the other night, most people probably gave up their fists/magic night for the tournament, so it'd be nice if there was a chance of getting *something* for showing up and supporting the event.

Plus it could offer fun bragging rights of "Who will rank up?" or "Look at so and so they've just gained Sapphire!" etc, kind of silly but I think the small things make people more eager to join in.

[JewellRavenlock]

I don't know if it's an option for all annual/semi/quarterly events/tournaments but I do love when we get penalty free losses and our wins count for WoL.

Like the other night, most people probably gave up their fists/magic night for the tournament, so it'd be nice if there was a chance of getting *something* for showing up and supporting the event.

Plus it could offer fun bragging rights of "Who will rank up?" or "Look at so and so they've just gained Sapphire!" etc, kind of silly but I think the small things make people more eager to join in.

Coming back to this and quoting Sabine because she makes good sense.

Any thought to this idea with the upcoming Panther's Claw?

I'm all for keeping the wins for the night (and I can't even enter due to the timing) because when else do you have a room full of similarly ranked people? People can say, "If you have the skill to go far in the tournament then you should be able to rank up during regulation dueling" but that is not how it works. On any given regulation dueling night, you're lucky to find two under-Emeralds in the room to fight.

[DemiBob]

I don't know if it's an option for all annual/semi/quarterly events/tournaments but I do love when we get penalty free losses and our wins count for WoL.

Like the other night, most people probably gave up their fists/magic night for the tournament, so it'd be nice if there was a chance of getting *something* for showing up and supporting the event.

Plus it could offer fun bragging rights of "Who will rank up?" or "Look at so and so they've just gained Sapphire!" etc, kind of silly but I think the small things make people more eager to join in.

Coming back to this and quoting Sabine because she makes good sense.

Any thought to this idea with the upcoming Panther's Claw?

I'm all for keeping the wins for the night (and I can't even enter due to the timing) because when else do you have a room full of similarly ranked people? People can say, "If you have the skill to go far in the tournament then you should be able to rank up during regulation dueling" but that is not how it works. On any given regulation dueling night, you're lucky to find two under-Emeralds in the room to fight.

When I made that comment, I was more pointing out that the PC is often emerald-alts, especially the winners. Most people who have won the PC since I started had emeralds on other characters.

[JewellRavenlock]

When I made that comment, I was more pointing out that the PC is often emerald-alts, especially the winners. Most people who have won the PC since I started had emeralds on other characters.

This is a frustrating truth that I probably don't want to get into here :)

[Shadowlord]

When I made that comment, I was more pointing out that the PC is often emerald-alts, especially the winners. Most people who have won the PC since I started had emeralds on other characters.

This is a frustrating truth that I probably don't want to get into here

I'd also like to point out that this is not specific to DoF or the PC. It's a rather larger can of worms.

I'd like to see PC participants keep their wins.

[King]

/sweeps my own multiple PC wins on alts under a rug and whistles.

I think a good middle ground would be this.

PC set to single elimination
Wins gained throughout the night are kept
Any Sapphire-rank ( since some will join just to make rank to emerald if they win ) who may rank due to winning the PC have to choose to either...

A. Keep their Wins and *must* pass the Panther's Claw to second place ( or below second should second place be a Sapphire who will be ranking to Emerald due to gathered wins as well )

B. Choose to keep the Panther's Claw instead and forgo any WoLs.

This way Sapphires have the option to choose to take their wins while allowing a lower rank to use the Panther's Claw in regulation duels.