Let's chit chat about rules.

[DUEL Gabby]

C'mon, this'll be fun!

Okay, who wants to offer an opinion on this new rule change and/or offer their own suggestions?

We are wanting to make this fair for the Warlord that is wanting to challenge but also we want people to be active. The rule change was about trying to balance that while making the rule less confusing.

A couple of my original ideas for this rule change are as follows:

1) Pay it forward. Duels from last cycle pay forward for challenge rights in the current cycle.

--The problem we found with this idea is that someone could get their one duel in during Week 1 of the previous cycle, not duel again, and then challenge at Week 12 of the current cycle and it would be allowable. That is 24 weeks of inactivity but they still gain challenge rights. This doesn't seem fair.

2) The Warlord must duel once between weeks 7 of the previous cycle and week 7 of the current cycle. That is one duel in 13 weeks.

--The problem found with that idea is that it is just a pain in the behind to count.

So we came up with the rule for one duel in the previous 13 weeks.

--It has been brought to my attention that this is a pain in the behind as well. We are listening, so feel free to offer ideas and opinions. We can't use every single suggestion we get for one rule, so ask that you please not take it personally if your suggestion isn't used.


Also, we are fans of discussing this respectfully.

[Goldglo]

Try a days cap instead of a weeks cap (similar to how DoF does it). It's not a 100% perfect system until/unless it becomes automated and, while eligibility can be tracked on the standings, it should ultimately remain the player's reponsibility (vs. staff) to ensure that they're active/challenge-eligible. Over the years, we found days are somewhat easier to track than weeks and less open to interpretation (e.g. when does the "week" start/end, etc.).

--Matt

[DUEL Gabby]

Try a days cap instead of a weeks cap (similar to how DoF does it). It's not a 100% perfect system until/unless it becomes automated and, while eligibility can be tracked on the standings, it should ultimately remain the player's reponsibility (vs. staff) to ensure that they're active/challenge-eligible. Over the years, we found days are somewhat easier to track than weeks and less open to interpretation (e.g. when does the "week" start/end, etc.).

--Matt

I am okay with that, myself. Of course, I am not the only one working on this and the issue arises that people may not want DoS rules to be so similar to DoF rules, I am told.

My suggestion would be possibly changing the number of days required? Anyone have any suggestion for what a fair number of days would be IF this became the solution?

We would still like to hear more suggestions if anyone has an idea they would like us to consider.

[Claire Gallows]

I would press those that object to the similarity to offer what they believe to be fair. 13 Weeks, as you have it, is 91 days or something like that. So at this point it's pretty much the same and just a matter of semantics.

[Spell]

1: Keep 13 Weeks rule, since it's easy to follow.
2: Use THIS LINK HERE <- It's a link to the DoS Standings Weekly duels. Don't take this literally, because you will have to find the most up to date one in the future.
3: Find your last duel. Mine on Jesse is WEEK EIGHT.
4: Proceed to count Gabby's posts after, plus any posts in the next Cycle forum post. If it gets close to 13 posts? Maybe I should get another duel.
5: There's also this: http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

¯\_(&#12484;)_/¯

[Hope]

I personally enjoy the rule amendment. For the following reason:

* You are required to duel -ONCE- every cycle to continue to gain these rights.

That is how the rule previously read which could be interpreted two ways: once in a cycle's length (aka x weeks) or once *per* cycle meaning if you get a duel in Week 12 of this cycle, starting Week 1 of the next you have not met your requirements for Challenge Rights. This is no doubt why the change was made and I think it makes perfect sense, less questions.

As per the difference in Weeks/Days I think the Weeks are the easier solution. Since Swords revolves around a static time where the standings are considered -live- to the minute that seems like the easiest time to start the given week. Then just click the previous week on the standings, so on so forth.

[G]

We are still looking for more opinions. Anyone of any rank can participate!

Thank you!

[Kalamere]

I actually think that the need to pull up a calendar and count back weeks makes this something of a pain. The DoF method of counting back days is, in my opinion, worse. I'd rather see it as something easy to spot in just the standings and put as little burden on both the challenger and the challenge validater as possible.

Because SoA is gone and we're literally talking about a single duel you could also drastically shorten the time span. My suggestion would be to require this 1 duel to be fought within the last calendar month (or, if you think that's too little time, then make it the last 2 calendar months or even 3 which puts you back in the 13 week realm but, IMO, isn't necessary for just 1 duel.) Meaning, in the case of 1 calendar month, that if you are issuing challenge on February 28th then the standings need to show that your date of last duel was no less recent than January 28th.

It's all right there in the standings, nice and neat and easy to figure out.

As an aside, because DoS things are typically not official until they appear in the standings, I think I would nuke the clause about "the most recent shift report" (which, for the record, also reads somewhat ambiguously. Is the "most recent" report the one filed last night or does it include all shifts since the last standings?)

So, summing up, my proposal would change things to read as:

* SoA is replaced by "Challenge Rights."
* The cost of a challenge is” (1) One Challenge Right = Challenge Baron, (2) Two Challenge Rights = Challenge Overlord.
* Each Warlord, upon ranking to Warlord on the standings, is awarded 2 Challenge Rights per cycle.
* At the time of issuing a challenge, the challenger must have recorded at least ONE official duel within the last calendar month (eg: a challenge issued July 15th must has a standings last duel date of no less recent than June 15th).

[Spell]

* At the time of issuing a challenge, the challenger must have recorded at least ONE official duel within the last calendar month (eg: a challenge issued July 15th must has a standings last duel date of no less recent than June 15th).

Correct me if I'm wrong because I'm terrible.

This part of your proposal would mean for issuing challenges and not when it comes to a challenge still being valid?

Like, if a challenge is issued on July 15th and someone's last duel was June 15th. The challenge would be valid and not voided on the 16th because it was made within the one month time slot?

If so, that doesn't seem bad at all.

As for another suggestion...

What about a "You need one duel per cycle to *UNLOCK* your challenge rights"?

Player A duels during week one of Spring Cycle, you get your challenge rights unlocked while also gaining activity on the standings.

Player B decides to wait until the last minute of Week 12 of spring cycle to duel. They need to duel anyway to stay on the standings, and since they get their duel they are able to challenge when the Week 12 standings are posted.

That way players HAVE to duel. Like a mini SOA of sorts. It's what the current rule kind of is, but you can only challenge after you gain the duel is what I'm suggesting. So there would be no pay it forward type deal from dueling Week 11 of Spring and not having to duel at all until Week 13 of Summer.

Another could be challenges are unlocked right after you get your duel, since they can be validated from a DUEL's posting of the nights activities; though this being only if you're already on the standings currently from staying active. Retired / Returning duelists would still have to fall under the 14 day wait issued starting the date they get their activity duel.

[Kalamere]

This part of your proposal would mean for issuing challenges and not when it comes to a challenge still being valid?

Like, if a challenge is issued on July 15th and someone's last duel was June 15th. The challenge would be valid and not voided on the 16th because it was made within the one month time slot?

Correct. A challenge once ruled valid remains valid. We wouldn't have the mess like in DoF of having a challenge delayed until the challenger's validity expired. It is checked as of the day the challenge got posted and if that's good then things proceed without any more thought as to date of last duel.

[Ebon Ilnaren]

The only problem I see with counting the time in months is that not all months are the same length, whereas weeks are. While that doesn't bother me personally, some people might start picking nits.

[Kalamere]

The only problem I see with counting the time in months is that not all months are the same length, whereas weeks are. While that doesn't bother me personally, some people might start picking nits.

I'll give up the 1 day that usually means (2.75 in March) in exchange for simplicity of not actually needing to look at the calendar.

[PrlUnicorn]

Why not take a page out of the DoF's book? On the DoF standings, there's a place for status. For DoS use the status section (renamed or not) for noting whether or not a Warlord is eligible to challenge.

[DUEL Gabby]

Alright, here is what we have come up with thus far. Feel free to respectfully critique.


* The cost of a challenge is: (1) One Challenge Right = Challenge Baron, (2) Two Challenge Rights = Challenge Overlord.

* WLT challenge rights don't count towards regular challenge rights

* Each Warlord, upon ranking to Warlord on the standings, is awarded 2 Challenge Rights per cycle, at the beginning of each cycle. These Challenge Rights will not carry over from one cycle to the next. If they are not used, they are forfeit when the cycle changes.

* At the time of issuing a challenge, the challenger must have recorded at least ONE regulation duel within the last TWO calendar months (eg: a challenge issued March 1st must has a standings last duel date of no less recent than January 1st). Being awarded WoL as a prize or for any other reason does not take the place of regulation dueling. Tournament duels do not take the place of regulation dueling.

* An inactive/retired duelist must wait 14 days from their duel that reinstates them before gaining Challenge Rights. (eg: John Doe has a duel logged on a shift report for 3/1/15. He is eligible to challenge on 3/15/15.) This 14 day waiting period is not subject to standings. A shift report will due as proof.

[Kalamere]

Why not take a page out of the DoF's book? On the DoF standings, there's a place for status. For DoS use the status section (renamed or not) for noting whether or not a Warlord is eligible to challenge.

Two reasons really. First is that the status section of the standings in DoF is an unofficial courtesy. While it is usually right, the standings aren't actually controlling. If the day count doesn't match, then that fact overrules whatever is in the standings. Second, and probably more important in this case, is that I don't believe there is anyone actively coding improvements to the DoS standings.

Gabby, what's the argument of 2 months vs 1? I don't really care either way, but I see the change without any commentary around it so am curious.