Regarding the Tuesday DoM and DoF Combo Night

[Lacey]

Except I wouldn't be calling DoF late shift if a split happened once more. I signed up to call for DoM and DoF, if a split happens, I'd stick with DoM.

I'd rather no split happen because with this change DoM has gained more than a solo night.

Tuesday - DoM / DoF
Wednesday - DoM / DoF <- DoM didn't even have anything for Wednesday night

DoM also can be fought during the Saturday early-early shift in the Annex during the Saturday Fight Night block from 3-6 PM EST. That's 5 set shifts with DoM available, far more than what it normally had.

[Shadowlord]

Except I wouldn't be calling DoF late shift if a split happened once more. I signed up to call for DoM and DoF, if a split happens, I'd stick with DoM.

I'd rather no split happen because with this change DoM has gained more than a solo night.

Tuesday - DoM / DoF
Wednesday - DoM / DoF <- DoM didn't even have anything for Wednesday night

DoM also can be fought during the Saturday early-early shift in the Annex during the Saturday Fight Night block from 3-6 PM EST. That's 5 set shifts with DoM available, far more than what it normally had.

That's a good point. But my understanding was that this idea initially came about to promote DoM activity. And it doesn't seem to be having a positive effect in that direction, based on the numbers Harris crunched.

I'm going to reiterate that I really think it's a caller availability issue, in the end. There seem to be some who prefer the combination night, and some who don't - that's why I thought a vote would be fair.

[PrlUnicorn]

Thanks for the stats, Harris. It's appreciated.

I can't speak for Aja, but I'm pretty sure she'd be willing to call Tuesday DoM on the RDI side like it was before this experiment.

ETA: I know you ladies are asking probably for the sake of giving DoM it's own solo night again. But from my perspective, having DoF on the Isle is silly and my character won't go there. Nice that if he ever wanted to do Magic (UNLIKELY) there are Fight Nights (and days). But yeah. I'm with you that DoM should have its own night again.

Collie hasn't duel there since this started. I doubt she's the only character and I now know that am not the only player that had been waiting out the so-called experiment to duel there again on Tuesday.

Or DOF is dark letting DOM have a solo day. That way all the duels get at least one solo day where they aren't competing with another sport for participants. BUT That's a Matt/Kheldar decision to make. I'm just brainstorming.

Maybe this is a coordinator discussion.

Historically speaking, I can't remember a time when DoM had a night to itself. There was always another dueling venue open at the same time. I don't know what actual harm there would be in making that change and having only DoM on Tuesdays. If someone can offer anything other than "But DoF would be closed that night," I'd be glad to listen. The other two sports have at least one night when they are not competing with the others. The general attitude has generally been, "No, not my sport, you're not taking something away from MY sport." That tends to come from the players. If memory serves, the last time discussion of DoM having a night to itself was made, the Friday Fight Night was added. Instead of DoM getting a night with nothing else open, Swords Friday went to TriSports Night.

If the coordinators want to discuss a closure for DoF on Tuesdays to give DoM an actual solo night, I'm good with that. However, that's not why I started this thread. I started this thread to find out why something that was announced as a month long experiment has gone on from April and into August without anyone on staff saying this is a done deal or we'll be going back to DoM only on Tuesdays as of this date. I think the players deserved that courtesy.

Outsiders point of view. Everything I've seen regarding the shared nights has been good. Activity and RP.

The problem with being an Outsider, my friend, is you see what's there and not what's missing.

Except I wouldn't be calling DoF late shift if a split happened once more. I signed up to call for DoM and DoF, if a split happens, I'd stick with DoM.

I'd rather no split happen because with this change DoM has gained more than a solo night.

Tuesday - DoM / DoF
Wednesday - DoM / DoF <- DoM didn't even have anything for Wednesday night

DoM also can be fought during the Saturday early-early shift in the Annex during the Saturday Fight Night block from 3-6 PM EST. That's 5 set shifts with DoM available, far more than what it normally had.

Except it would be a split, it'd be a restoration.
How many of the DoM duels done during this experiment were alts of the same group of players dueling each other? That activity might be great for numbers, but it's like sandbagging to pad WoL records. Not saying that having those characters duel each other is wrong, but doing that causes a poor reflection of player participation.

That's a good point. But my understanding was that this idea initially came about to promote DoM activity. And it doesn't seem to be having a positive effect in that direction, based on the numbers Harris crunched.

I'm going to reiterate that I really think it's a caller availability issue, in the end. There seem to be some who prefer the combination night, and some who don't - that's why I thought a vote would be fair.

That was my understanding as well, Shadow. DoM on Tuesday has dropped.
I don't recall anyone being asked about DoM being added Wednesday, Matt just one day posted this is what we're doing.

Like Shadow, I'd like to see a vote, too. Perhaps, the admins would be willing to set up the ballot like they did for the Governor election to ensure that it's one vote per player.

[Andrea Anderson]

It would be a split. Stats state more duels are happening. More duels, in dueling rooms, where the main event is dueling. More are happening, even if it's DoF. There's 20+ people in a single room playing together actively (almost, give or take) each week. Maybe the lack of support by more members of the DoM community could be tied into the reasons of lower numbers, or the fact that the most active DoM player ( Claire ) is now calling a shift on that night? I know I haven't been dueling DoM as much as I used to due to burn out and the fact that I call the later shift.

If everyone that stopped doing DoM on Tuesday simply started doing it again, the increase would be there. It's the refusal to do the sport that hurts it more than merging DoM and DoF into one room.

I've heard nothing but success about the merger from newer players, and DemiBob is a good example of this.

That's really all I have to say about this subject. I like the change and the gained nights for DoM that were brought on by it. Have fun with your discussion.

[G]

Outsiders point of view. Everything I've seen regarding the shared nights has been good. Activity and RP.

The problem with being an Outsider, my friend, is you see what's there and not what's missing.

I see what's missing. And what's missing appears to have made the setting more welcome.

[PrlUnicorn]

It would be a split. Stats state more duels are happening. More duels, in dueling rooms, where the main event is dueling. More are happening, even if it's DoF. There's 20+ people in a single room playing together actively (almost, give or take) each week. Maybe the lack of support by more members of the DoM community could be tied into the reasons of lower numbers, or the fact that the most active DoM player ( Claire ) is now calling a shift on that night? I know I haven't been dueling DoM as much as I used to due to burn out and the fact that I call the later shift.

If everyone that stopped doing DoM on Tuesday simply started doing it again, the increase would be there. It's the refusal to do the sport that hurts it more than merging DoM and DoF into one room.

I've heard nothing but success about the merger from newer players, and DemiBob is a good example of this.

That's really all I have to say about this subject. I like the change and the gained nights for DoM that were brought on by it. Have fun with your discussion.

You cannot split what was never truly merged. So, what you've effectively said there is the staff decided to merge these duels, remain silent about it, and hope no one would notice or question that a permanent merger was made and the players have to deal with it. The DoM community at large was not asked if they liked it, we were pretty much told "We're doing it, deal with it. We don't care if you like it or not." Since it was only supposed to be a short term arrangement, I dealt with it and a few others did, too. Since I am not a staff member, I was not privy to any discussions made in private, but as I told G, you can only see what's there and not what's missing. Sometimes, people are just sitting back and being quiet while waiting for others to have enough rope to hang themselves.

You've heard nothing but success until now when someone said they wanted know what was going on. Now, we see the Tuesday numbers for DoM have dropped.

You don't enjoy DoM right now, but I'm not telling you that you're a part of the problem because you don't feel like playing. I'm respecting your right to play or not as you are comfortable.

I refuse to be bullied into taking part in something I don't enjoy be it up front or via PAGT tactics. This is my choice, I have to live with that.

What I want is a pair of yes or no answers:
Is this permanent or not?
Will the permanence of it be voted on or not?

I'll adjust accordingly.

[PrlUnicorn]

Outsiders point of view. Everything I've seen regarding the shared nights has been good. Activity and RP.

The problem with being an Outsider, my friend, is you see what's there and not what's missing.

I see what's missing. And what's missing appears to have made the setting more welcome.

Gee, thanks for telling me I make people miserable, G.
I love you, too.

[G]

Gee, thanks for telling me I make people miserable, G.
I love you, too.

I didn't say you make people miserable. I said what is missing is making the place more welcome.

You assumed I didn't see what was missing. You stated that I only see what is there.

Just because I don't DoM doesn't mean I don't see what's going on and talk to people. Let's be real. There's more than just you missing. When I've spoken to players who actively avoided Tuesdays because they don't feel welcome, isn't that a problem? If they feel welcome now and are dueling/playing, isn't that good?

Instead of boycotting the night because (generic this time) you don't agree with having both sports together, try participating in it and get into that welcoming atmosphere with the players who are now trying it out because they find it fun.

What I see, being an outside observer, is that DoM/DoF nights are enjoyable, welcoming and active. What's missing is the opposite of that.

I've known you a long time and I know you're someone who is willing and able to be a welcoming person. There's no reason to not go in and try it out if it's the sport you like. I bet you'll feel welcomed, too, and may enjoy it.

[Delahada]

Or DOF is dark letting DOM have a solo day. That way all the duels get at least one solo day where they aren't competing with another sport for participants.

That's how I'd do it, if I were in charge. But...

Outsiders point of view. Everything I've seen regarding the shared nights has been good. Activity and RP.

^-- There's that.

I haven't done DoM in a long while, and not under this character (lol), but I stand by what I said that if DoF is done over on the Isle my character's going to miss out on the extra nights because he won't go there. That's just me, though, and this one character of mine. I have others who no problem with the setting, and I might dig them out of their closets where they've been stuffed and neglected for so long to do it.

I think it's the setting, mostly, that turns me off. Particularly for this character (Sal). I had him try DoM before, for a tournament a while back, and it was dumb trying to reason why he even would, but thankfully there were Fight Nights and he could do it in the Annex, never having to step foot on Magic Landia Island where he'd be physically (like an allergic reaction) uncomfortable.

I'm going to reiterate that I really think it's a caller availability issue, in the end. There seem to be some who prefer the combination night, and some who don't - that's why I thought a vote would be fair.

You may have a valid point, but I don't think it's so much to do with the type of duels being called. Most of you know my alts and I don't care, so I'll say I know I can't devote Tuesday nights to calling myself. I've helped out on DoM before, because help was needed, but that's just not a day I can promise I'll be available for RL reasons, and that might be the case for other callers too. Tuesday is such an off night.

[Napoleon Bonarat]

It would be a split. Stats state more duels are happening. More duels, in dueling rooms, where the main event is dueling. More are happening, even if it's DoF.

So the ruse was to improve DoF numbers. Got it. The usual "DOF is best" crew take over Twilight duel and declare it a success. So what if the duels that are taking place are more DOF than DOM.

Just because I don't DoM doesn't mean I don't see what's going on and talk to people. Let's be real. There's more than just you missing. When I've spoken to players who actively avoided Tuesdays because they don't feel welcome, isn't that a problem? If they feel welcome now and are dueling/playing, isn't that good?

Careful, G, your slip is showing.

As long as it's your group of cohorts that's having more fun at the expense of those you don't like, that makes it A-OK, eh?

Let's just call it out for what it is. One clique--who quite often makes people feel unwelcome, stalked, and harassed--didn't like Taco Tuesdays and came up with a plan to chase off the other clique that didn't just roll over and play their way. They just couldn't let the DOM folks have their fun on Tuesday RDI nights and go do something else. No. They had to bring their DOF party to wind it all up. And now we have less people dueling DOM on Tuesdays than before.

And the kicker is, they got Coords all thinking this was a great idea. Even better if they didn't like the people they were chasing off, right? A little bonus.

Good job.

[LadyAjaBird]

If DoM returns to RDI Island, I would indeed call again. And no, Nappy. You did not throw me under the bus!

Fists calling is never anything I wanted to do. I like calling magic. The RDI side is better suited as the tool on RoH side doesn't correctly score it.

DoM numbers go up and down as real life steps in with it's various challenges and will always do so. It's been this way since AOL days. All duels suffer ebbs and flows as things happen. School, work, kids...etc...

Magic is one of those that sometimes, people just have to hang out and watch for a couple days before they think they want to try it. Because as with anything new, it looks so daunting. Magic is also a different "vibe" than DoF is. It's more.. mellow.

I do think the DoM needs at least one night to itself. This would ease the calling issue of both sports competing on the same night. DoF would still have two nights to itself. That should be plenty.

So. If DoM gets Tuesdays back, you have me for sure for calling.
I appreciate the consideration from those in charge of the sports to end the combo night. I know it can be hard trying to find a balance that pleases everyone. If you don't mind me saying, I believe giving DoM Tuesdays would be a nice way to balance between the three sports.

So again, thank you for your time in reading this.

[Napoleon Bonarat]

How many of the DoM duels done during this experiment were alts of the same group of players dueling each other? That activity might be great for numbers, but it's like sandbagging to pad WoL records. Not saying that having those characters duel each other is wrong, but doing that causes a poor reflection of player participation.

Oh yeah. This. SOOOO sick of this.

[PrlUnicorn]

Just because I don't DoM doesn't mean I don't see what's going on and talk to people. Let's be real. There's more than just you missing. When I've spoken to players who actively avoided Tuesdays because they don't feel welcome, isn't that a problem? If they feel welcome now and are dueling/playing, isn't that good?

Instead of boycotting the night because (generic this time) you don't agree with having both sports together, try participating in it and get into that welcoming atmosphere with the players who are now trying it out because they find it fun.

What I see, being an outside observer, is that DoM/DoF nights are enjoyable, welcoming and active. What's missing is the opposite of that.

I've known you a long time and I know you're someone who is willing and able to be a welcoming person. There's no reason to not go in and try it out if it's the sport you like. I bet you'll feel welcomed, too, and may enjoy it.

I've known you a long time, too. I'm asking you to please reread the first post in this thread. It's a question that has yet to be answered despite the fact that Lem, the DoM coordinator, answered a different question in the thread.

That people feel welcomed is great, but alienating others that had played regularly is not. It's not a matter of a boycott, so much as I don't like having things shoved down my throat. That's pretty much how this got started: the impression given was "We're going to try this out as a temporary thing ." If it's a success, great. All well and good. As I said, I'll adjust accordingly.

None of that negates the fact that this thread started as ... GIVE ME AN ANSWER, is this a permanent fixture or not? Instead of saying YES or NO, people have been too busy defending what a great idea it is which caused the discussion about how no one was asked if they wanted to do it in the first place and should have been asked. ( I agree that vote should have been taken) I didn't ask if was a great idea. I asked:

It was my understanding that the DoM/DoF combo night on Tuesday was supposed be an experiment. It went from one month and was continued a second month. No further notices of continuance were made as to it being permanent. Are those of us that have been waiting for the experiment to end simply out of luck for the Isle to return to being Magic only on Tuesdays?

Yes or no. That's all I'm asking for, not straw man arguments, not how great it is or isn't. We're always telling people to keep the thread on topic, that's the topic. A single one word answer from the staff: YES or NO. Nothing more, nothing less. A "We've not yet decided" would be a better answer than silence.

[Rena A Cronin]

Napoleon.

Your paranoia is showing.

Why is his paranoia showing? Nappy's opinion counts like everyone else's, or so I though.

Sounds like some are saying others don't count as they do and if the player base doesn't go with the few, well sorry-it was good knowing you and stuff.

Each sport has their own player base, so are we going to toss away one set to please another?

[Awkward]

I'm not a coordinator, I have no authority on this site at all, I'm just a single and very new voice in this mix. I have no idea what the Isle was like before April, because I started in mid April. I started in Fists first and then it was through other players (Matt actually) who was started to drop the seeds of try the other sports too.

DoM became my favorite sport. It's fun, and so in time (truly just within the last couple of weeks) I've created alts to participate more in it, thinking that "Okay, well maybe people wouldn't want to duel against Grace, how about this one?" or "I don't feel like rping Grace tonight, I'm going to use this character instead." I never considered the idea that it was to pad numbers of participation in some way. I want more people to join in this sport. Combining it with DoF seems (to me) to be a good idea in the sense that it is drawing DoF people out there and if they're bored waiting for the right match to show up --then hey why not try Magic? Some people will trade matches for it. Its a way to get people to participate.

I apologize for my post to be going off topic on PrlUnicorn's original question, but I felt that several issues were brought up in the course of this thread and wanted to address them from my point of view as a pretty new player.