Mentor Mod Rule

[PrlUnicorn]

How about in a special RP event there was a scheduled match and I offered to step in as a substitute in place of an absence? During this time my mentee grabs a duel and cannot use his mentor mod. My duel concludes, I start actively coaching him, he can thus use his mod. How does that not completely make sense? That is why the ruling is flexible to accommodate situations precisely like this where OOC inflict with IC events.

The coaching after one finishes their own duel makes perfect sense to me. The mentor is already there and, very likely, aware that their mentee has entered a duel. Frankly, anyone that knew that was your mentee should have been prepared for him or her to make use of that mod as soon as you were actively paying attention. Anyone facing said mentee under those circumstances can't actually play that not paying attention to who was coming in the room card since both mentor and mentee were present when the mentee entered into the duel.

[Rakeesh]

- I don't see, "because this is the way it's been for years" as a reason to not improve the rule.

- I'm not hearing a lot of well-rounded arguments against the actual mechanics of the suggested rule change from fluctuating-to-static mod pools. I'm just trying to figure out why some might be opposed to the idea, as an OOC mechanic. I'm not suggesting anyone change the requirements for an ongoing RP relationship.

- As it stands, it's a caller's job to police the RP-policy of the mentor/mentee relationship. Are there any callers who can step forward and say that they've denied a mod to a mentee because their mentor was idling, not actively roleplaying, or something along those lines? I'd be interested to hear about what that experience might have been like.

More likely, I'm guessing, is that the policy isn't really policed consistently. I've certainly witnessed this first hand. My suggestion is to allow that policing to be done by the administrators, and only when a complaint is brought to them via evidence, rather than put onto the shoulders of callers who are doing their best to maintain multiple duels in a busy room at once. This seems like the exact same policy in spirit, with two different executions to me. I'm not sure where the idea stems from that my suggested policy is any harsher, or less casual-friendly, than what's currently set out.

[Hope]

- I don't see, "because this is the way it's been for years" as a reason to not improve the rule.

This has never been stated. I hate regurgitating the things I've said prior but I will once more for your benefit. The fact that this has not been a massively resurgent issue in the past 5+ years simply means it's not a popular opinion. It doesn't mean it can't be changed it just means there haven't been enough concerns made to warrant it.

- I'm not hearing a lot of well-rounded arguments against the actual mechanics of the suggested rule change from fluctuating-to-static mod pools.

What's there to gain from it? Your suggested change will either: stop glass/jade/ruby duelists from having 1+ mod if their mentor shows up late to cheer them on. Or it will do what you could have done by opening the standings.

The community has been incredibly helpful to the new participants in the duels and has even extended a hand to educate them. Look at Ana for example, she has not been here for even a month and she has a mentor now. All it takes is a little help from the players and there should never be the need to 'state' mods at the cost of a mentee losing out on one. Maybe that's just me but that's not something I deem worth it.

[Jake]

Just a polite reminder to keep it civil.

Everyone is entitled to express their viewpoint.

I'm sure Matt and Kheldar can read past the emotion and act in the best interests of the sport. Let's not cloud the discussion.

[Rakeesh]

I've said all that I wanted to say here, probably twice. My apologies for any frustration my suggestion's caused. This is such a niche ruling that there was never a need for it to get heated.

[Goldglo]

Hi everyone,

After reading through recently raised concerns regarding mentor modifier application and discussing things with Kheldar, we have decided upon the following.

The mentee can receive the additional in-game modifier regardless of whether their mentor was present at the beginning of the duel.*

*If this rule continues to lead to confusion/drama/problems, we will add additional notification responsibilities to the player of the mentored character which they will be required to fulfill before being granted the additional modifier even if the mentor is actively mentoring. For now, we are trying to keep things as simple and hassle-free as possible. Please keep this in mind.

The mentee can receive the additional in-game modifier during challenge duels (in the rare case that a low-ranked character is involved in a challenge) and some tournament duels, unless tournament rules or specific challenge rules have an overriding qualifier. For example, if a Slugfest tournament caps modifiers at a certain number, a mentored character will not have use of a bonus modifier during that tournament. If a tournament allows all entrants to fight “at rank” and does not expressly state that mentor assistance is not allowed, mentor modifiers would be in play.

The bonus/additional modifier granted by the mentor applies last, after all natural modifiers. In other words, all natural modifiers are utilized first, before the additional/bonus modifier.

Examples:

1) Ruby A, actively being mentored, uses 3 modifiers. Their mentor then stops mentoring and begins their own duel. Ruby A does not have a 4th modifier to utilize.

2) Jade B, actively being mentored, uses one modifier. Their mentor departs, meaning no active mentoring is taking place. Jade B has one additional modifier for use in the duel as Jades naturally receive 2 in-game modifiers.

3) Ruby C has used 3 modifiers during the course of a duel. Their mentor arrives and begins active mentoring. Ruby C now has a 4th modifier at their disposal assuming the mentor continues with the mentoring until the modifier is used.

4) Jade D has used one modifier during a duel. Their mentor arrives and begins actively mentoring. Jade D uses a 2nd modifier during that period of active mentoring. The mentor then departs or stops actively mentoring. Jade D does not have a 3rd modifier for use.

------------------------------

Now, let me say a few things about mentoring in general. The initial reasons for establishing the Mentor system to begin with was twofold: create a character development/role-play opportunity for participants while providing a small in-game bonus to the lower-ranked character as a reward for that participation.

Signing up a high-ranked character as a mentor is a commitment by that character and its player; if a player is unwilling to play out the mentor-mentee relationship and to perform the role-play coaching aspect required in order for the mentee to receive the in-game bonus modifier, then it’s simple: don’t be a mentor.

The spirit behind the mentoring system is fairly obvious; we should not need to create rules and legislation for every possible abuse of the system. The vast majority of the people playing this game are adults and/or have the capability to think or act like mature responsible people. I am asking that you apply that maturity and reason.

It boils down to this:

Do not abuse this system.

Do not try and find or exploit loopholes in this system.

Do not make this system a burden on the calling staff or other players.

Mentoring is supposed to provide multi-faceted benefits and role-play opportunities to participants and not be a drain on calling staff. If we find ongoing abuse of this system, we will simply scrap it entirely. The Mentor system is not something that should create headaches and drama for players or on-duty callers. If the system leads to such things, it will go away. I’d much rather it remain in place.

--Matt

[G]

Now, let me say a few things about mentoring in general. The initial reasons for establishing the Mentor system to begin with was twofold: create a character development/role-play opportunity for participants while providing a small in-game bonus to the lower-ranked character as a reward for that participation.

Signing up a high-ranked character as a mentor is a commitment by that character and its player; if a player is unwilling to play out the mentor-mentee relationship and to perform the role-play coaching aspect required in order for the mentee to receive the in-game bonus modifier, then it’s simple: don’t be a mentor.

The spirit behind the mentoring system is fairly obvious; we should not need to create rules and legislation for every possible abuse of the system. The vast majority of the people playing this game are adults and/or have the capability to think or act like mature responsible people. I am asking that you apply that maturity and reason.

It boils down to this:

Do not abuse this system.

Do not try and find or exploit loopholes in this system.

Do not make this system a burden on the calling staff or other players.

Mentoring is supposed to provide multi-faceted benefits and role-play opportunities to participants and not be a drain on calling staff. If we find ongoing abuse of this system, we will simply scrap it entirely. The Mentor system is not something that should create headaches and drama for players or on-duty callers. If the system leads to such things, it will go away. I’d much rather it remain in place.

--Matt

This has my complete support and should apply to all three sports, and as such, I will likely be having something similar said in regards to DoS.

[Vanion Shadowcast]

This has my complete support and should apply to all three sports, and as such, I will likely be having something similar said in regards to DoS.

I didn't think that the Squireship titles required the Baron to be present for the extra mod to be activated; there, the extra mod is simply an extension of the specific "Squire weapon", yeah?

---

Thanks for the clarification on some of the vaguer sections of the rule, DoF Staff, and at least giving my suggestions your consideration.

As there is an element of subjectivity in meeting the requirements to earn a mod partway through a duel, I do think that giving an opponent/caller clear notice of gaining a mentor mod is something that would be helpful to reduce situations that exist in that gray area.

[Kalamere]

I think G more meant the clauses in regard to being adults, enjoying the game and stop looking for / abusing loopholes.

As far as the mentee mod: I honestly think you just need to always go into a fight with a mentee assuming they will have that mod available to them. Maybe you'll get lucky and their mentor won't show or something else will happen to nullify the possibility, but your best bet is to always assume it could come out.

[G]

I think G more meant the clauses in regard to being adults, enjoying the game and stop looking for / abusing loopholes.

Yes, that's what I am referring to. The Squire stuff is pretty cut and dry so there's not much that can be done there.

[Jake]

As far as the mentee mod: I honestly think you just need to always go into a fight with a mentee assuming they will have that mod available to them. Maybe you'll get lucky and their mentor won't show or something else will happen to nullify the possibility, but your best bet is to always assume it could come out.

I pretty much agree with Kal.

[King]

As far as the mentee mod: I honestly think you just need to always go into a fight with a mentee assuming they will have that mod available to them. Maybe you'll get lucky and their mentor won't show or something else will happen to nullify the possibility, but your best bet is to always assume it could come out.

I pretty much agree with Kal.

That's exactly what I've been saying. Check standings, see you're fighting a mentor, expect the worse.