Mentor Mod Rule

[Harris]

I agree with Rakeesh that there should be a static mod pool, and not a fluctuating one, to be fair to everyone involved in the match.

My only suggestion would be to amend the rule in regards to two elements. State plainly that if a mentor is not present at the *start* of a match, then the bonus doesn't apply. So no mid-match walk ins.

The second part is a bit more difficult, but if a mentor is punted during their mentee's match, the mod bonus should still apply for that match. For this it'll basically end up being at the caller's discretion to determine a punt or not. This is unfortunately exploitable since a mentor could easily show up at the start of a match, then "boot" after the first round is called. But I don't have a better solution at the moment.

[Rakeesh]

I'm not demanding an immediate change. :p

But there's no reason the conversation can't happen now. I'm certainly not admonishing anybody.

I agree with Rakeesh that there should be a static mod pool, and not a fluctuating one, to be fair to everyone involved in the match.

My only suggestion would be to amend the rule in regards to two elements. State plainly that if a mentor is not present at the *start* of a match, then the bonus doesn't apply. So no mid-match walk ins.

The second part is a bit more difficult, but if a mentor is punted during their mentee's match, the mod bonus should still apply for that match. For this it'll basically end up being at the caller's discretion to determine a punt or not. This is unfortunately exploitable since a mentor could easily show up at the start of a match, then "boot" after the first round is called. But I don't have a better solution at the moment.

This is pretty much exactly where I am at, for the moment.

[King]

Let's not make this a personal thing. I'm sure most folks here have both benefited from, and been victim to the way this rule's set up.

That's not why I brought this up.

I would've brought the issue up before, but this was my first time experiencing it in this context. I didn't know that a mentee could gain mods half-way through a duel, and by pre-requisites that seem very subjective.

Well it'd be a lot more convenient for Mentors if the Mod acted as it does in DoS but that would homogenize the sports one step further. The rule is clear in its diction. There was even an OOC clarification of the rule the round prior. When a mentor mod can't be used due to the mentor dueling, then the Mentor's duel is concluded, that should be an alarming signal.

I'd have to agree but you'd be losing the IC dynamic between mentor and mentee going on mid-match. But, for less of a headache, it could be do-able.

The downside is having ghost emeralds mentor others and never show up to duel at all. Personally, if this happened, I'd only like to see ACTIVE Emeralds be able to mentor.

[Rakeesh]

King: I would agree to having active Emeralds, only, as mentors.

I don't think that the callers should be burdened with having to decide whether or not a mentor has met their IC pre-requisite of "being a good mentor" to subjectively determine mods. When I'm busy and calling three or four matches at once, I'm probably not even aware of mentors who might be lurking and not really actively coaching.

I think that mentors should be encouraged to actively coach, and create roleplay relationships with their mentees. I just don't think that something so hard to judge and regulate should be the pre-requisite for bonus mods.

[Lena Choi]

King: I would agree to having active Emeralds, only, as mentors.

I don't think that the callers should be burdened with having to decide whether or not a mentor has met their IC pre-requisite of "being a good mentor" to subjectively determine mods. When I'm busy and calling three or four matches at once, I'm probably not even aware of mentors who might be lurking and not really actively coaching.

I think that mentors should be encouraged to actively coach, and create roleplay relationships with their mentees. I just don't think that something so hard to judge and regulate should be the pre-requisite for bonus mods.

I don't think the requirement needs to be changed. The impetus is on lower ranks to choose their mentors, not vice versa. If a mentor isn't an active enough Emerald, don't pick them. The idea of forging a relationship is to inspire Emeralds to be more active, since the requirement is to show up, at the very least to the room, and hopefully take the next step and engage in RP. I myself haven't been as active lately, but I wouldn't want to lose the ability to mentor because of it.

The DoF mentoring system is two pronged, in that it has a mechanic/gaming benefit, and is meant to increase RP and participation. I don't think scrapping a portion of it for the sake of expediency is a good idea.

[King]

King: I would agree to having active Emeralds, only, as mentors.

I don't think that the callers should be burdened with having to decide whether or not a mentor has met their IC pre-requisite of "being a good mentor" to subjectively determine mods. When I'm busy and calling three or four matches at once, I'm probably not even aware of mentors who might be lurking and not really actively coaching.

I think that mentors should be encouraged to actively coach, and create roleplay relationships with their mentees. I just don't think that something so hard to judge and regulate should be the pre-requisite for bonus mods.

I don't think the requirement needs to be changed. The impetus is on lower ranks to choose their mentors, not vice versa. If a mentor isn't an active enough Emerald, don't pick them. The idea of forging a relationship is to inspire Emeralds to be more active, since the requirement is to show up, at the very least to the room, and hopefully take the next step and engage in RP. I myself haven't been as active lately, but I wouldn't want to lose the ability to mentor because of it.

The DoF mentoring system is two pronged, in that it has a mechanic/gaming benefit, and is meant to increase RP and participation. I don't think scrapping a portion of it for the sake of expediency is a good idea.

The RP benefit is what I enjoy the most about the program. I'd be a little sad if it were taken away. The way it is set up now makes interactions have to happen and it's pretty nice. I don't think anything needs to be changed, it may be a little annoying to lose to a sudden mod advantage due to a mentor being brought into the mix, but that's the threat shown on the standings. Be vigilant and you'll catch it.

[Rakeesh]

I'm not suggesting that we should scrap the encouragement to actively roleplay and coach your mentee. I'm suggesting that modifiers are an OOC mechanic that need clear OOC rules. The rules are currently determined by IC factors.

My and Harris' suggestion is more of an amendment to the rule, to make it more fair to players of mentees, the people who have to duel them - and the callers.

[Hope]

I'm not suggesting that we should scrap the encouragement to actively roleplay and coach your mentee. I'm suggesting that modifiers are an OOC mechanic that need clear OOC rules. The rules are currently determined by IC factors.

My and Harris' suggestion is more of an amendment to the rule, to make it more fair to players of mentees, the people who have to duel them - and the callers.

The rules ARE clear. You didn't bother to read up on them. The rule was even re-iterated before the mod was used. Negligence isn't a reason to change the way something has been done for what will soon be 6 years.

[Rakeesh]

I agree completely I've lost a lot of duels this way, in sudden death no less.

You seemed to agree with me earlier in this thread, Queen.

I'm not failing to accept responsibility for my not understanding the rules, and losing due to them. However, now that I do understand the rules, I think that they are not designed as well as they should be for anyone involved.

As I've said multiple times, I would've brought up this issue earlier if I'd been aware of it.

[Hope]

I agree completely I've lost a lot of duels this way, in sudden death no less.

You seemed to agree with me earlier in this thread, Queen.

I'm not failing to accept responsibility for my not understanding the rules, and losing due to them. However, now that I do understand the rules, I think that they are not designed as well as they should be for anyone involved.

As I've said multiple times, I would've brought up this issue earlier if I'd been aware of it.

I guess my facetious sarcasm could have been unwarranted in this thread but having been exactly in your shoes; I respectfully disagree with your sentiments.

[Rakeesh]

You need a proper emoticon to pull off facetious sarcasm on an online forum, without sounding like you mean what you write.

Like ---->

But your disagreement is now noted!

[Claire Gallows]

I'm not suggesting that we should scrap the encouragement to actively roleplay and coach your mentee. I'm suggesting that modifiers are an OOC mechanic that need clear OOC rules. The rules are currently determined by IC factors.

My and Harris' suggestion is more of an amendment to the rule, to make it more fair to players of mentees, the people who have to duel them - and the callers.

The rules ARE clear. You didn't bother to read up on them. The rule was even re-iterated before the mod was used. Negligence isn't a reason to change the way something has been done for what will soon be 6 years.

No, no they aren't. In fact, I had this discussion mid-match not too long ago because I was under a different impression due to how previous mentors of mine with other characters have thought of the rule. [[ETA: I've had players that have been here YEARS tell me they were under the impression that the mentor had to be there the whole time. When that's the case and even experienced players are unsure, that's when there's an issue]]

Clarification IS needed.

[Hope]

I'm not suggesting that we should scrap the encouragement to actively roleplay and coach your mentee. I'm suggesting that modifiers are an OOC mechanic that need clear OOC rules. The rules are currently determined by IC factors.

My and Harris' suggestion is more of an amendment to the rule, to make it more fair to players of mentees, the people who have to duel them - and the callers.

The rules ARE clear. You didn't bother to read up on them. The rule was even re-iterated before the mod was used. Negligence isn't a reason to change the way something has been done for what will soon be 6 years.

No, no they aren't. In fact, I had this discussion mid-match not too long ago because I was under a different impression due to how previous mentors of mine with other characters have thought of the rule. [[ETA: I've had players that have been here YEARS tell me they were under the impression that the mentor had to be there the whole time. When that's the case and even experienced players are unsure, that's when there's an issue]]

Clarification IS needed.

Having 20 years under your belt and not knowing a rule doesn't make it unclear. The mentor has to be there, not dueling and `coaching` the mentee. That's it. It takes IC involvement and for you to NOT be dueling. If the rule was you had to be there at the start of the duel, it'd say that. There's nothing unclear about it.

[King]

This is why I bug Matt if there's something I don't understand.

He's completely buggable!

But yes, the rules state clearly,

During matches where their Mentor is both a) present and b) `paying attention’, the Mentee will receive an in-game benefit of 1 more modifier than their current rank allows. Thus, Glass would get 1 mod, Jade 3 mods, and Rubies 4 mods. By ‘paying attention’, we mean that the Mentor can’t simply be lurking in the chatroom, calling duels, or dueling themselves. The idea is that the Mentor would be coaching their Mentee from outside the ring, giving advice, pointers, etc. without external distraction.

During matches where their Mentor is both a) present and b) `paying attention.

It says during. Not before. This is enough of an example to show that a mentor can show up at any time during the duel as long as they.

1: Present
2: Paying attention to the Mentee
3: Not lurking, calling duels, or dueling themselves.

These are the only three rules. Once a player is done dueling they may mentor their mentee during their mentee's match. The character just needs to be there, physically, in the room, during the duel.

If it said "The mentor must be present at the start of the duel for the mentee bonus to be allowed", then the rule would be just like that. At the start of the duel. The wording here is During. Even the final round of a sudden death match in the 14th round is considered during a duel. A mentor only needs to show to be present. They only need to post / coach their mentee to be paying attention. Once these two are completed, the mentor can use the mentee bonus.

That is how the rule is written.

[Claire Gallows]

During can mean from start to finish. During can mean for two seconds. During can mean for the round in which the mod is used. During can mean as soon as the mentor sees from an alt that 'oh crap, my mentee is dueling, gotta run in'.

I hate to be "that guy" (or girl), but by its very definition,

dur·ing
preposition
1.
throughout the duration, continuance, or existence of
2.
at some time or point in the course of


1 supports where I'm coming from. For the duration.
2 supports some of you others. At any time.

When it's split like that, I'd say clarification is needed so that nobody gets butthurt or confused.