Improving Duel of Magic

[Max Blue]

Nobody said anything about turning it into DoS. I don't want it to be similar to DoS.

If you write a new matrix with moves that are magic spells, keeping a setting that was created by magic, that would be based around magical characters dueling with magical spells, it can't be called the Duel of Magic?

You can not be great at a game and still have fun with it. As far as all of the current/active discussions about improvements go, I'm just not really interested in them. I don't see any other suggestions that would draw me back to DoM. It's not a threat to simply get my way, as I'm sure someone somewhere might take it that way. It's just a personal fact.

You're correct that not everyone has to like all three sports. However, there is an imbalance severe enough that people are worried that dropping any more activity will kill the sport. That doesn't strike me as a simple matter of preference.

[Neo Eternity]

The changes we are looking to make are not simply to draw people in. There are lots of corners we could cut if we're looking only for new activity. But that's not the purpose here. The changes are to fix weaknesses in gameplay that DoM currently has, which will make it more fun to more people, which will then in turn draw in new players.

All I can say is that if the stuff currently on the table doesn't appeal to you, sorry. We can't appeal to everyone. Our current options do look good to us, and that's what we're testing at the moment. Please feel free to come up with something new and fresh, and bring it here. But I must be frank; a complete overhaul is not an option, and won't be unless absolutely everything else ends up fruitless.

[Scorched Druid]

The changes are to fix weaknesses in gameplay that DoM currently has, which will make it more fun to more people,

Not to play Devil's Addy, but how can you be sure?

The main "weaknesses" DoM has is really Duel Length, Higher 15 round/Tie percentage, and streamline defenses. If opening the full 12x12 fixes the 3 main trouble areas. Start there and see where it goes, no one is arguing that opening up the matrix is a bad move, what is getting thrown around is that without spell advancement what makes it worth a new duelists while to stick around? I know for me the whole modifier thing is dicey, not because it makes us look like the other sports really, but I get a sense most feel there hasn't been a more appropriate alternative brought up.

The other problem is that we keep COMPARING DoM to other things like fighting games, the other sports and so on. Wil touched on something I tend to overlook. DoM/S/F are games of SKILL. You either adapt and learn the matrix or you don't. There's no "nice" way to put it. Part of it is being able to "out-guess" the other person true, but there is a fair amount of logic and deductive reasoning involved. Those of us who've been dueling for a few years, all of this comes as second nature, we react to duel rounds without really thinking, we just "know" the rough percentages of success in our remaining move options. We're not a button masher, we're not a game where you can sit around and wait for your hotkeys to cooldown. We're a real-time strategy.

DoS/F are more set in their stratagems than DoM. (Love my lack of transition material?) Magic's matrix is more interchangeable (to me at least) than the others. We look at moves in terms of Offensive and Defensive but that's not quite right. Save those terms for DoS and DoF where we actually block or parry. For DoM I think Target Moves and Area Moves are more suited since that's what we work with. Foul Fog, Arctic Blast, and Elemental Fury are Area Moves, as in it covers a large space. Armor and Shield are Target (Personal), while Mage Bolt and Mind Whip are Target (opponent).

Duel of Magic as a whole doesn't need fixed. But there are trouble areas that need to be truly examined and worked on, this is true. However, opening the 12x12 and introducing some form of modifier is what you (Neo) have pushed since early last year, honestly it looks like you're going to do what you want irregardless of what arguments are made. Not sure why there's a reason to bother offering insight and thoughts on what COULD be done really.

[MurOllavan]

I think by fun for more people he meant fair and fast. As for the starting with there and see where it goes, I think that's exactly what Neo was saying. So was I, it doesn't make sense or is necessary to throw the game away when there's postive changes being discussed.

As far as skill there is some, and nobody would want to remove that. An edge due to experience or in game benefits allows players to grow their characters and to enjoy the game. The large luck factor in dueling that often gets a bad rep I think actually makes them more fun to play. A large edge that comes more from in game benefits is different. I do agree that there is work and testing and experimentation to be done.

I'm unsure about the offensive and defensive terms, the way I always put it is there often six or seven moves in DoM that are good for both you and opponent. You play a range of moves that is best against theirs, it would be a mistake often to try and put someone on just one or two. Quite the opposite in the other two sports, for example. I do think this is inherently tied to the matrix, and is not bad in itself. Though I think it will always be less popular than the other way but on the other hand with the proposal and all, we don't know how it would change in the future either.

I guess it could look like Neo's idea though I think that doesn't make sense, mainly because the subject matter probably precedes him. I don't think he's doing things on his own, as the rank parity issue and speed are thought of by a vast majority of players as serious issues both in DoM and out.

I take the current playtesting and discussion(the 12x12mods not this discussion of overhaul) very seriously and I understand Will's comments on this about how it wouldn't be DoM anymore if you overhauled it completely. On the other hand I also get Lem's comments on why play isn't fun anymore for those of us in at the top.

[Stiles Mornay]

Yeah, long time no see, dudes. Blame Minecraft for the most part for my inactivity.

Anyway, been hearing some disturbing stuff about what's happening with DOM these days now. Like it being less active in comparison to swords and fists, so I thought something should be done about that. Turns out Neo-mun and the others here are trying to rectify this problem.

I'd like to help out as a tester and provide feedback on testing, if possible. Not too sure if I can join in on this ongoing discussion as well, considering I'm sort of "out of the loop" for a while (again, blame Minecraft. It's that good). So for now, just testing/feedback is what I'd like to do.

So yeah, said my piece, so make what ya will of it and hopefully I'll be of some help.

[Sarah]

I didn't know where else to post this and I really hope I don't come across as an idiot.

I don’t know how well I’m going to do at this so bare with me. All things considered with DoM and fixing its kinks, I may not be the best qualified considering that I’m, more or less a rookie in the means of DoM. I find myself a little confused, because I understand that we’re trying to get more involvement and interaction with DoM, but there are a few things that I’d need clarification on. –Possibly because I’m a blonde or that I’ve missed a little much. I dunno.-

First of all, would be the opening of the 12x12 matrix. If the 12x12 matrix is opened that will level the playing field for players who have complications with dueling higher leveled members of DoM. I know I have trouble understanding the matrix and at points when the advanced spells are in place I get a bit irritated because I don’t entirely understand the matrix. Rookie, I know. Yet, opening the 12x12 matrix would be a great relief for those who feel insufficient enough to duel higher leveled players. Perhaps even make them feel a bit more confidant when dueling. However, and here’s my question. By opening up the 12x12 matrix you’re suggesting there be modifiers correct? Or did that completely breeze over my head?

Dru’s DoM4 post “Elemental Burst” confuses me. I understand we’re trying to make the duels move a bit more quickly, so why exactly would we want to do this?

Since the bursts are half as strong, that means the values are half as much. Where the corresponding mage spell is 1-0, the burst is only .5-0, where the Mage spell scores a .5 advantage, the Burst is a null or tie. So Fire Burst vs Mage Bolt would be .5-.5. Not hot enough to overwhelm it as Immolation would, but not enough to completely negate the Bolt either.

Doesn’t that defeat the purpose? Dru’s entire post baffled me. I’m not sure what it was going to pertain to, or if it even served as relevance to the changes being made or was more over a suggestion for a path that could be taken.

Next, and somewhat baffling/ interesting is the Modifiers Neo suggested. Seeing as how I’m going down the list of posts in DoM. I can see where this would be exciting and in fact a bit more…. Developed per-say.

My super modifier's a little different. It can still be applied to any spell, offensive or defensive. On success, it will give an extra 0.5. So SMB vs MW gets 1.5 - 0, SMB vs WB 1 - 0, and SMB vs MB 1.5 - 1. It carries no risk or reward for if it fails. SMB vs SH is just 0 - 0.5. Even in the basic tier, this has uses. The semi-perfect defense there can be beaten just with this. SH after WB is so strategically sound because nothing can score a full point against it, and only DP can score half. SDP vs. SH, 1 - 0. It speeds up duels, but not by too much. It still allows a duelist to win a duel in less than five rounds, but it's not as dramatic of a difference. It creates greater move possibilities without changing the moves or how the game is played at its core. It should be a smooth transition (at least for players) from DoM 3.2 to DoM 4 if we use this. And any "super" spell can be roleplayed any way you want. One big con is how much changing the caller tools would need.

The change to the caller tool would be well worth it if it meant more excitement in the duel and perhaps a bit more speed. I was calling last night and Felix and Khoom went to 6-5 in 13, switching lead and tying every other round. It was very tiresome to the players and… Well I hate to admit it but me as well. But I believe that modifiers would help pick up the duels in not only length, but in action and excitement.

Would this require retraining for callers?

I like the suggestions. I do. I guess what I’m getting at, is there are some things I’m not sure I’ve been entirely understanding and I hope I made sense. My big question is at the moment…. How/When are we play testing, how do we implement this in a fun experiment, and is there any way I can help get the opinion of others about this? Maybe do a little survey during duels or something? I know not all are paying attention to DoM ooc, but perhaps if we had a more evaluated opinion we might know how susceptible everyone else would be in regards to modifiers in DoM.

[Neo Eternity]

We're playtesting right now, actually. As I'm sure you already figured out considering your post in the Super thread. But we're not playtesting only that. We can playtest any of the other things if we want. Like, for example, Harris's element-based actions idea in the MP thread.

[Sarah]

We're playtesting right now, actually. As I'm sure you already figured out considering your post in the Super thread. But we're not playtesting only that. We can playtest any of the other things if we want. Like, for example, Harris's element-based actions idea in the MP thread.

I would love to help as much as possible.

[Scorched Druid]

I didn't know where else to post this and I really hope I don't come across as an idiot.

I don’t know how well I’m going to do at this so bare with me. All things considered with DoM and fixing its kinks, I may not be the best qualified considering that I’m, more or less a rookie in the means of DoM. I find myself a little confused, because I understand that we’re trying to get more involvement and interaction with DoM, but there are a few things that I’d need clarification on. –Possibly because I’m a blonde or that I’ve missed a little much. I dunno.-

First of all, would be the opening of the 12x12 matrix. If the 12x12 matrix is opened that will level the playing field for players who have complications with dueling higher leveled members of DoM. I know I have trouble understanding the matrix and at points when the advanced spells are in place I get a bit irritated because I don’t entirely understand the matrix. Rookie, I know. Yet, opening the 12x12 matrix would be a great relief for those who feel insufficient enough to duel higher leveled players. Perhaps even make them feel a bit more confidant when dueling. However, and here’s my question. By opening up the 12x12 matrix you’re suggesting there be modifiers correct? Or did that completely breeze over my head?

By opening the full 12x12 players no longer have an incentive to gain rank. This is what is getting bounced around. The Modifiers, Bursts, and other DoM4 ideas are being presented as ways to fill that vacuum. Why gain rank if you don't get anything for it?