My own DoM proposal.

[Carley]

I have a simple solution to give the lower ranks in DoM their own tournament.

How about making the Ring Of Klytus a Tournament prize, instead of the system in place now?

My proposal for this tournament is to limit the entries to the middle rank, in other words Magician, and below, so as to truly fulfill the intent of this tournament.

This tournament would be held in addition to the ART and AMT, and at the beginning of each cycle, so that the winner could have the benefit of RoK for the entire cycle.

The only thing I don't like about this is the fact I find the current RoK system to be pretty nifty and unique. Fists and Swords doesn't offer a prize based on WoL like Magic does, and I like the idea of Magic having something unique to it. Heck, I like the idea of each sport having something unique to it, but that's neither here or there.

Don't get me wrong. I really feel there needs to be a tourney for the low ranked folk! I just think it would be a shame to see the current RoK system sacrificed for it.

[Topaz]

In regards to the all ranks tournament, let me repeat what I said elsewhere in the board about low rank tournaments.

We used to have apprentice only tournaments. People that wanted to be in the tournament but only had higher ranked characters simply made new characters so they could participate with them. With the All ranks tournaments at least you (general you) know (most of the time) if in any given tournament round, you're up against a more or less experienced opponent. Also, everyone has access to the same amount of spells in an ART, so everyone performs at the same rank.

There doesn't need to be an 'apprentice-only' tournament. Frankly DoM doesn't have the numbers to support such a thing. But I and many others do feel a low rank tournament (for those below mage) would help give a "newbie friendly" appeal to DoM that it currently lacks, or be a step in the right direction to start giving it that appeal. .

Let me get this right, you really want a low rank only tournament with everyone in the standings with a higher rank making a new character so they can participate?

What exactly is the difference between that and everyone participating in the costume they already have and the spells used in the ART are limited to the basic eight?

By the way, the absolute only way I can see to ensure only the 5 or 8 real apprentices participate is an invitation only tournament. Those type tournaments should be held by players rather than officials. (Real in this case is to mean apprentice characters not played by players who also play ranked characters)

[Wulfson]

There's a huge difference between the ART and DoS Madness. For starters, the prizes and benefits of winning or placing in the Madness potentially help everyone. A Warlord has a direct line to challenge the Overlord by winning the Madness, which isn't available now outside the WLT. A Baron may not be a Baron by the end of the tournament. Look at Neo, for example. He entered as a Baron, placed second as a Warlord after he lost his title. Now he's got a grant to utilize. The Overlord can hand out grants to get rid of Renegade Barons that may want to challenge for his title. Find me a benefit a Mage or above gains from the ART outside of competition.

I stand corrected Harris. Not having a Baron, Warlord, or even a ranked character, I apparently overlooked the rest of the potential prizes and entered for the fun and bragging rights only. Silly me.

[Harris]

In regards to the all ranks tournament, let me repeat what I said elsewhere in the board about low rank tournaments.

We used to have apprentice only tournaments. People that wanted to be in the tournament but only had higher ranked characters simply made new characters so they could participate with them. With the All ranks tournaments at least you (general you) know (most of the time) if in any given tournament round, you're up against a more or less experienced opponent. Also, everyone has access to the same amount of spells in an ART, so everyone performs at the same rank.

There doesn't need to be an 'apprentice-only' tournament. Frankly DoM doesn't have the numbers to support such a thing. But I and many others do feel a low rank tournament (for those below mage) would help give a "newbie friendly" appeal to DoM that it currently lacks, or be a step in the right direction to start giving it that appeal. To poo poo such opinions away without even a sliver of consideration does no favors for anyone, or the sport itself.

Let me get this right, you really want a low rank only tournament with everyone in the standings with a higher rank making a new character so they can participate?

What exactly is the difference between that and everyone participating in the costume they already have and the spells used in the ART are limited to the basic eight?

By the way, the absolute only way I can see to ensure only the 5 or 8 real apprentices participate is an invitation only tournament. Those type tournaments should be held by players rather than officials. (Real in this case is to mean apprentice characters not played by players who also play ranked characters)

Why is it assumed that if a lower ranked tournament is held that all the higher ranks are going to create new characters to enter it so they can compete? I mean, if this is the assumption or a fact then things are way past broken.

[Scorched Druid]

Harris,

The low ranks dodging the high isn't just a DoM thing. And I'm not talking the Mage asking for duels and the few gathered telling he/she "No thanks". I'm talking outright go feed the crickets silence.

>>Why is it assumed that if a lower ranked tournament is held that all the higher ranks are going to create new characters to enter it so they can compete? I mean, if this is the assumption or a fact then things are way past broken.<<

Who says they'll make new characters and not use low ranks they all ready have. And it's safe to say that everyone likes tournaments, if you have an eligible character, why not enter it? I normally don't enter these, but I'm just voiceing the Devil's Advocate here a bit.

[Soerl Lute]

First of all: I agree with what Harris said. In Magic, people are gonna tend to avoid the high ranks so they can try to advance.


Topaz: It's simple, really. If those people want to make alts to participate? Fine. No one can do anything about that, but they're again not getting anything for it. At least in this instance the lower ranked person doesn't go "OH CRAP IT'S <insert high ranked character here> I'M SO SCREWED" because that is certainly a factor. You also overlooked something. Not apprentice only. Under Mage. This is something that may discourage people from making alts just to participate. There will be people with other spells there. Just not NR or Immo.

[Carley]

I don't think you actually bothered to read half of what I wrote, so I'll repeat myself.

I don't think there needs to be an apprentice only tournament. DoM does not have the numbers to even support an apprentive only tournament.


With that said, I don't think mages masking themselves as throwaway characters to participate in a low rank tourney would be as big a problem as you think if a separate tournament was created and ART left as is. I don't want to take from mages what they already have, necessarily. I just think more should be offered to the low ranks.

Mages should have something for themselves. Low ranks should have something for themselves. Do you not at least agree there? If you don't like the ideas already suggested, can you think of something? If so, please share.

And quite frankly, if a low rank tournament was implemented and several mages went out of their way to create throwaway characters for it that just shows me how much they really want to draw in newer faces.

[Topaz]

Why is it assumed that if a lower ranked tournament is held that all the higher ranks are going to create new characters to enter it so they can compete? I mean, if this is the assumption or a fact then things are way past broken.

Not assumption Harris, experienced again and again over the last 15 years or so, and in all three sports. Did you not notice?

[Harris]

Why is it assumed that if a lower ranked tournament is held that all the higher ranks are going to create new characters to enter it so they can compete? I mean, if this is the assumption or a fact then things are way past broken.

Not assumption Harris, experienced again and again over the last 15 years or so, and in all three sports. Did you not notice?

Again, DoM IS NOT THE OTHER SPORTS. DoM has the smallest base. DoS can afford to have alts to fill out tournaments because DoS has the largest base and the biggest draw. It's not an issue there. Note how NOBODY is talking about alts winning the Talon or Panther's Claw. DoM can't afford to have players with Mages horning in on lower ranked tournaments for no reason. There's no growth there. It's selfish.

[Wulfson]

Oh, and Mages and the AM did get something else out of the ART tournament. We got ART egg goblins. Those goblins beat wins any day.

[Maranya Valkonan]

I have a simple solution to give the lower ranks in DoM their own tournament.

How about making the Ring Of Klytus a Tournament prize, instead of the system in place now?

My proposal for this tournament is to limit the entries to the middle rank, in other words Magician, and below, so as to truly fulfill the intent of this tournament.

This tournament would be held in addition to the ART and AMT, and at the beginning of each cycle, so that the winner could have the benefit of RoK for the entire cycle.

The only thing I don't like about this is the fact I find the current RoK system to be pretty nifty and unique. Fists and Swords doesn't offer a prize based on WoL like Magic does, and I like the idea of Magic having something unique to it. Heck, I like the idea of each sport having something unique to it, but that's neither here or there.

Don't get me wrong. I really feel there needs to be a tourney for the low ranked folk! I just think it would be a shame to see the current RoK system sacrificed for it.

So in other words, you're in favor of keeping a system in place that apparently favors only those who happen to have good winning streaks and so forth.

My proposal opens the RoK to be held by a person of eligible lower rank who wins the tournament.

Which system is more fair to the lower ranks who can actually make use of the RoK?

[Topaz]

I don't think you actually bothered to read half of what I wrote, so I'll repeat myself.

And quite frankly, if a low rank tournament was implemented and several mages went out of their way to create throwaway characters for it that just shows me how much they really want to draw in newer faces.

I did read everything you and anyone else said. Some ideas are still under consideration.

Regarding this one of yours, how about you run such a tournament. Just stick up a post. If you want to hand out a prize that has any influence on regular dueling or standings, shoot me a PM with what you have in mind. I'm sure we'll agree on something. I do happen to have three of the tornadoes in jar back, just to name an example. Perhaps human nature at least in patrons of the isle changed since the ARTs were implemented.

The same goes for everyone who thinks this is a good idea. Do it. Show me.

[Carley]

I'm in favor of a unique system rather than yet another cookie cutter thing, yes.

That and I'm not sure I like the idea of stripping high ranks of the chance to win RoK. Sure, it benefits low ranks more, but as is lower ranks can get a hold of it as well. It's not impossible. Not even close to impossible.

While I believe whole heartedly more should be provided for low ranks, it doesn't mean I think X and Y and Z should be stripped from mages. In no sport do I feel low ranks should have more perks than high ranks.

ETA: And a low rank winning the RoK isn't even an assurance it will help them. Plenty win that, Panther's Claw, and the Talon and it doesn't help a bit.

[Scorched Druid]

So in other words, you're in favor of keeping a system in place that apparently favors only those who happen to have good winning streaks and so forth.

My proposal opens the RoK to be held by a person of eligible lower rank who wins the tournament.

Which system is more fair to the lower ranks who can actually make use of the RoK?

Are you saying that winning streaks and winning tournaments are not similar? While yes there are some duelists that are better at tournament format than consistent dueling, the current RoK system encourages the duelists to attend regular nights and duel. Making it a low rank tournament could potentially hurt dueling nights. Why should I go every night it's open and risk my rank for it when I can wait around and enter the tournament?

Also the RoK standings are used to seed the other DoM tuornaments including the AMT and ART among others.

[Carley]

I did read everything you and anyone else said. Some ideas are still under consideration.

Regarding this one of yours, how about you run such a tournament. Just stick up a post. If you want to hand out a prize that has any influence on regular dueling or standings, shoot me a PM with what you have in mind. I'm sure we'll agree on something. I do happen to have three of the tornadoes in jar back, just to name an example. Perhaps human nature at least in patrons of the isle changed since the ARTs were implemented.

The same goes for everyone who thinks this is a good idea. Do it. Show me.

I admit ignorance to what exactly a Tornado in a Jar is or allows. But I think I saw a sticky about that somewhere so I'll read up in a sec.

And I think that's a great idea. I'm talking with someone now about ideas and possibilities. Is Tornado in a Jar the only sanctioned prize or are there others floating about? And are people allowed to come up with unique prizes and pitch them to the coordinators for approval? I think that's what you meant in your post, but I just wanted to be certain.