State of Existence

[Soerl Lute]

Over the past couple of weeks, we've all seen the public announcements about the departure of players. I can't say I knew these players that well, though their characters always intrigued me.

I don't intend to ramble, so let me keep this short. If we're losing players that have been here for over a decade, what are we doing wrong? Maybe it's something that I shouldn't bring up, as I'm not aware of the circumstances that is causing these players to go.

Don't misunderstand me, either. This is a generalization without any finger pointing. Obviously something is the catalyst and I'm wondering if there isn't a way to nip it in the bud, right now.

[Elijah]

People come and go for different reasons, some positive and some negative. Some of those return either for positive or negative reasons, some don't return. Sometimes we do not notice and sometimes you can't help but notice. As long as we can find ways to introduce new blood and maintain continued interest to those who do check us out, then like anything in life it's a natural process of out with the old in with the new.

For me I have been gone for a few months because my computer died. I got a computer now and just got back online from my house Friday night. Sometimes I have been burned out and needed a break. Hopefully someone like Billy will come back and just be a player in the community again without becoming buried in being an admin more than a player.

I think what most non-admin players sometimes forget is they want to play too. But alot of their play time in the dueling community often gets interrupted or pushed aside because of their admin responsibilities. They get nothing for compensation for their time and efforts except our appreciaition, in which they are highly overdue for a raise.

When I first came to the duels in June of 1993 it is in very many ways still the same though vastly different in how it happens. The fact that 15 years later after everything I have witnessed the community go thru in ups and down roller coaster eras and periods of boring duldrums that we can even talk about the stat of the community is impressive enough on it's own.

It doesn't mean we should take things for granted, but I also don't believe it's cause for panic either. It's goood to check ones self once in awhile but another to dwell on if it's all wrong or not.

[Lydia Loran]

I'm horrible at articulating my thoughts at things sometimes, so forgive me ahead of time. ^_^ I'm going to ramble and not make much sense. You've been warned.

I know I haven't been here long or anything, but I'll give some thoughts based on things I've seen, heard and experienced. And, well, a little common sense. In a place that's been around a while sometimes, you gotta change things up. Make it interesting. For older folks (speaking generalization here, not about those who have recently made their departure as I'm sure they have their own reasons) and new blood alike.

I am more of a RPer than a duelist. I LOVE to RP. I love interacting and having fun. And while dueling is fun, RP is my main love of this place. When I first came here, I did so hesitantly, because I worried it'd be all about dueling, and no RP. Luckily I was proven wrong because there were quite a few players that RPed too! Some even RP exclusively just about. And while it doesn't help in regards to older players leaving? I can say as one of the legit new blood to the RoH, that's what kept me coming. People playing with me, and OOCly people being really nice and welcoming.

On the flip side, what was really discouraging to me (and still is) as a new blood, is when some have absolutely no interest in me at all, save for dueling. I've had characters try to be friendly and introduce themselves and got.. nadda. Because it's all about the duel. Dueling is all well and fun, but I get bored dueling all the time, every time I'm on, and I haven't even been around that long. ^_^;

And to touch on something else. The RP 'goldmines' around here. The Baronies in Swords, and the Opals in fists. Those are awesome. It's really interesting to me to see people play off these things. Particularly the Opals, as honestly, I know all of zilch about the Baronies. In fact, I would love to do something with an opal. Sadly, as a poor duelist its likely to be a looong time before I can get a shot at challenging for one. Arranging things with a holder of an opal to get a SL going isn't always an option either, though it can be, I imagine.

The point I'm trying to get at though is.. like.. Look at Madness. The Overlord title is up for grabs for ANYONE. Old and new alike, low and high ranked alike. It's exciting! I love it!! I think if there was *something* offered to lower ranked people they could play off of, that'd make the RP aspect of playing here really awesome. Like.. I dunno. Suncatcher somehow comes into play, but only Sapphires and below can challenge for it, something not quite a Barony comes into play for Grand Masters and lower.. so those are awful ideas, but I'm just giving examples here.

In magic (granted I don't know much about it) It's so much easier for new people/lower ranks to get a whole of SOMETHING to play off of, and that's great. Like.. Wyheree, to my knowledge, hasn't been dueling magic *that* long, but she's had the water tower a while, right? And she's been playing along with it, and that just adds an interesting element. New folk can have great ideas in the other venues, but simply never get a chance of execution, because it's *hard* to work your way up. :\ Especially if you're not one to duel all the time, every night.

Hopefully some of that made some sort of sense. It's longer than I'd have liked, so I'll stop now.

[Xavior Mues]

I'm horrible at articulating my thoughts at things sometimes, so forgive me ahead of time. ^_^ I'm going to ramble and not make much sense. You've been warned.

I know I haven't been here long or anything, but I'll give some thoughts based on things I've seen, heard and experienced. And, well, a little common sense. In a place that's been around a while sometimes, you gotta change things up. Make it interesting. For older folks (speaking generalization here, not about those who have recently made their departure as I'm sure they have their own reasons) and new blood alike.

I am more of a RPer than a duelist. I LOVE to RP. I love interacting and having fun. And while dueling is fun, RP is my main love of this place. When I first came here, I did so hesitantly, because I worried it'd be all about dueling, and no RP. Luckily I was proven wrong because there were quite a few players that RPed too! Some even RP exclusively just about. And while it doesn't help in regards to older players leaving? I can say as one of the legit new blood to the RoH, that's what kept me coming. People playing with me, and OOCly people being really nice and welcoming.

On the flip side, what was really discouraging to me (and still is) as a new blood, is when some have absolutely no interest in me at all, save for dueling. I've had characters try to be friendly and introduce themselves and got.. nadda. Because it's all about the duel. Dueling is all well and fun, but I get bored dueling all the time, every time I'm on, and I haven't even been around that long. ^_^;

And to touch on something else. The RP 'goldmines' around here. The Baronies in Swords, and the Opals in fists. Those are awesome. It's really interesting to me to see people play off these things. Particularly the Opals, as honestly, I know all of zilch about the Baronies. In fact, I would love to do something with an opal. Sadly, as a poor duelist its likely to be a looong time before I can get a shot at challenging for one. Arranging things with a holder of an opal to get a SL going isn't always an option either, though it can be, I imagine.

The point I'm trying to get at though is.. like.. Look at Madness. The Overlord title is up for grabs for ANYONE. Old and new alike, low and high ranked alike. It's exciting! I love it!! I think if there was *something* offered to lower ranked people they could play off of, that'd make the RP aspect of playing here really awesome. Like.. I dunno. Suncatcher somehow comes into play, but only Sapphires and below can challenge for it, something not quite a Barony comes into play for Grand Masters and lower.. so those are awful ideas, but I'm just giving examples here.

In magic (granted I don't know much about it) It's so much easier for new people/lower ranks to get a whole of SOMETHING to play off of, and that's great. Like.. Wyheree, to my knowledge, hasn't been dueling magic *that* long, but she's had the water tower a while, right? And she's been playing along with it, and that just adds an interesting element. New folk can have great ideas in the other venues, but simply never get a chance of execution, because it's *hard* to work your way up. :\ Especially if you're not one to duel all the time, every night.

Hopefully some of that made some sort of sense. It's longer than I'd have liked, so I'll stop now.

I can't resist the urge.

Is everyone an RPer? No! Does everyone enjoy the RPing? No! Is the term 'Powergamer' a bad word? No!

Remove the duels and see how many players remain.

[Elijah]

It is from the events related to the sports that the RP is born of to inspire spinoff RP and writing. Every play needs a stage to tell it's story on, the rings are our stage. The show you put on stage is entirely a different thing.

[Lydia Loran]

I can't resist the urge.

Is everyone an RPer? No! Does everyone enjoy the RPing? No! Is the term 'Powergamer' a bad word? No!

Remove the duels and see how many players remain.

It's that kind of dismissive attitude that's a real turnoff as well. (I'm not even going to get into the powergaming part of your statement as I'm not sure where that came from..) I had convinced someone to come here and give this place a chance, a while back, after raving about it. I ended up feeling like a liar and absolutely foolish because of this, since when we came in the very few around pretty much ignored them because they weren't jumping at the chance to duel. It was their first time here. Can you blame a person for wanting to learn things and get a feeling for new environments/community/etc?

I don't understand the point of coming to duel and only duel without RPing *at all*, to be honest. If you do that, why not just play a video game? And if you don't want to RP, that's fine. The people that do enjoy RPing will probably RP together.

And to touch on Elijah's statement, I don't disagree with you, no. I'd love to see more events related to the duels and such transpire, hence my suggestions to make things more 'open' to lower ranked/new people. I'm sure so many people have a lot of great ideas, they just haven't been able to get the shot to make those ideas happen.

[Jake]

It's that kind of dismissive attitude that's a real turnoff as well. (I'm not even going to get into the powergaming part of your statement as I'm not sure where that came from..) I had convinced someone to come here and give this place a chance, a while back, after raving about it. I ended up feeling like a liar and absolutely foolish because of this, since when we came in the very few around pretty much ignored them because they weren't jumping at the chance to duel. It was their first time here. Can you blame a person for wanting to learn things and get a feeling for new environments/community/etc?

I don't understand the point of coming to duel and only duel without RPing *at all*, to be honest. If you do that, why not just play a video game? And if you don't want to RP, that's fine. The people that do enjoy RPing will probably RP together.

And to touch on Elijah's statement, I don't disagree with you, no. I'd love to see more events related to the duels and such transpire, hence my suggestions to make things more 'open' to lower ranked/new people. I'm sure so many people have a lot of great ideas, they just haven't been able to get the shot to make those ideas happen.

Well, technically, there are already a couple of events targeted at lower-ranked duelers. Both the Talon of Redwin and the Panther's Claw are targeted at the lower-ranks.

However, your point is still taken. And efforts have been made over the years to do more to encourage and enable the lower-ranks.

A couple of other examples, the Overlord's champion in a challenge need not be a Baron or Warlord. The Overlord can choose anyone as their champion in a challenge. (I'd personally love to see this happen more often.)

Also, the Overlord has the "Overlord's Grant" which allows them to pick a dueler to challenge for a Barony.

In addition to DoS Madness, the Tour de Rhydin and the Duelmaster tournies were open to all ranks.

Mind you, most of the above are somewhat "gaming" lures, vice RP lures. RP lures are a little harder to develop. However, the addition of the Baronial Manors was an attempt to promote more of the RP potential. And when the Opals were originally fashioned their powers were intended to be an RP lure. I did not take part in the creation of the Towers for Twilight Island, but I think it's pretty clear there was an effort to create RP opportunities there as well.

The only limit is on the time and initiative of people to dream up and host/manage the events/storylines.

This argument between game and RP is an old one. We have a melange of players. Some who enjoy primarily the strategy/game of dueling. Some who enjoy the RP in the setting. Some who enjoy the synergy of the two. None of the above is wrong, and none of the above trumps the others. Whatever your reasons for being here, they're valid.

It's unfortunate that the people you tried to bring in didn't have a great time. Hopefully they will give it another chance some day. In the meantime, we hope people like you will continue to have fun here, and continue making the attempt to bring others with you!

[Lydia Loran]

I'm also glad for the Duel lures! Like, totally psyched I can participate in Madness. XD I try playing into that a little bit, with Lydia being all pro Soerl for Overlord about it. *chuckles* Even after Lydia gets knocked out in that first round, she can promote and cheer on others. It's a fun thing to play into, even if mostly a Duel lure?

And I wasn't aware the Overlord Grant could go to anyone. That's pretty cool too. Kinda like 'seconds' and ladies/lords of honor can also be anyone, right?

And I'll try to drag people over where I can. *grin* I know one who's been coming over recently and they seem to like it. I think there's been a little more new blood floating around than people may realize.

[RolandSalRoa]

Hey, this is a good discussion.

I think the Rings have probably seen a pretty steady decline/leveling out as video games have gotten more advanced story-wise and definitely more eye-pleasing. As advanced as these games will get, I still don't think they can touch the Rings when it comes down to the utter freedom we have to tell our stories and then interact with those stories through live role-play. That is what I love about this place so much.

Yeah, we've got titles and a matrix and all that, but we've also got characters straight from the imaginations of each player and limited only by our ability to express them. I love the challenge of having Roland duel say... a lightsaber weilding Jedi, or a lunchbox, or an imp! It challenges the mind in a way a video game never could.

Anyway, keep collaborating (and keep fighting... IC that is!)... it is what makes this place special.

[Farek]

The veteran players have been disappearing for years, not just the last couple of weeks. I always enjoyed this game because of the competition, but over time, the genuine competition of two people with two characters trying to outsmart the other gave way to politics, cliques, and nonsense. I was guilty of this, as was pretty much everyone a couple of years ago.

And, not surprisingly, it would seem that this trend has continued. Some of the players have changed, some have remained, but it's still the same old game with the same old drama.

[Artemus Kurgen]

This topic in itself is a double edge sword and because of that nature I"m not even going to really get into this discussion save to make one statement. And that statement is to quote Cory's player whom I talked with a few days ago and he told me this...

"Free Form Role Play is dying. Everyone wants to know the ending of a SL before even getting involved."

I've seen this...and it's pretty much true. Most players want to know what takes place in the last 5 chapters before even writing out the first chapter.

[Kheldar]

Well, technically, there are already a couple of events targeted at lower-ranked duelers. Both the Talon of Redwin and the Panther's Claw are targeted at the lower-ranks.

However, your point is still taken. And efforts have been made over the years to do more to encourage and enable the lower-ranks.

A couple of other examples, the Overlord's champion in a challenge need not be a Baron or Warlord. The Overlord can choose anyone as their champion in a challenge. (I'd personally love to see this happen more often.)

Also, the Overlord has the "Overlord's Grant" which allows them to pick a dueler to challenge for a Barony.

There have been several opportunities in the past for non-emerald duelers to win an Opal, and there was one case where it actually happened. It doesn't happen often, as the whole point of the titles are to have the strongest/most accomplished duelers protect the Opals because of the power they hold, but it is something we've done in the past, usually when the Opal is a prize for some special tournament.

[Karen Wilder]

This topic in itself is a double edge sword and because of that nature I"m not even going to really get into this discussion save to make one statement. And that statement is to quote Cory's player whom I talked with a few days ago and he told me this...

"Free Form Role Play is dying. Everyone wants to know the ending of a SL before even getting involved."

I've seen this...and it's pretty much true. Most players want to know what takes place in the last 5 chapters before even writing out the first chapter.

I think this is one of the reasons I don't write as much as I used to.

For me, collabaration is vital. Almost every time I start writing an SL, it's with an eye to having others get involved. Even the stories I write that are set pieces, like Maetel's background & the Kitsune Foundation stuff, I get input from my close friends so I can keep the story moving forward in my mind's eye.

All the best SL's I've ever read have been collabarations. As my cousin once told me, he writes the way he does because the people he collaborates with challenge him to always write better.

Even the RPing of the duels themselves is a collabarative effort. You don't need to know the outcome beforehand to have a well RPed duel or challenge... In fact, in my opinion it's not knowing the final outcome that brings out the best RPing.

[Jake]

"Free Form Role Play is dying. Everyone wants to know the ending of a SL before even getting involved."

I've seen this...and it's pretty much true. Most players want to know what takes place in the last 5 chapters before even writing out the first chapter.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by this. The audience? Or the writers/contributors?

For me, collabaration is vital. Almost every time I start writing an SL, it's with an eye to having others get involved. Even the stories I write that are set pieces, like Maetel's background & the Kitsune Foundation stuff, I get input from my close friends so I can keep the story moving forward in my mind's eye.

All the best SL's I've ever read have been collabarations.

I do like collaborative stories. I like taking part in collaborative stories. However, someone's got to know where the story is going. The mastermind behind events (whether they reveal them ahead of time or not) so they can tell the collaborators "no, that won't work, or here's what else is happening, so if you can work around/with that..." it's helpful. Also, someone needs to keep the forward momentum of the story.

So, from the perspective of the audience, maybe you don't want to reveal where the story is ultimately going. But from the perspective of the collaborators, there needs to be some sort of information feed and management of the story threads. e.g., you can't have player A killing off character X, who's going to be central to the final scene being written by player B.

Sometimes it's just a loose guideline "e.g., this character and this character are expendable, do what you want with them. This character is pivotal, so please run anything you do with them past me before you post."

It's not that you need to script out the entire storyline for all the collaborators, but you do need to provide some guidance as to what the collaborators can affect/not affect, etc.

[Topaz]

DoM has a minimum of 6 events per year geared toward low rank duelers and none dueling characters are always welcome, too.