Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

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Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by PC » Wed Jan 15, 2020 6:28 pm

Hello Duel of Swords players! Since DoS has gone Lossless we have seen the climb from Commoner to Warlord become expedited. The Squire role served as a bridge between new players or new characters and the uphill climb the sport offered. In the current iteration of the game an extra mod really doesn't seem to have a visible impact. When they first came around the expected duels required to hit Warlord were far more than they are currently so the extra Mod probably played a larger role over time. The question offered is what exactly do we do with a role that has shrinking value in the game? With it being underused two options come to mind: get rid of it or make it hold new value.

The Squire still has story potential but lacks the agency in game to be a desirable to new duelists or incentivize more duelists to play over again. To change this we will be testing the following system:
  • Squires will continue to be Squires upon hitting the rank of Warlord. They will only cease to be by their own decision, being removed by their Baron or in the event that their Baron is defeated. As a Warlord can only use 4 mods, the bonus mod will no longer apply to the Warlord Squire.
  • Squires will unlock a new benefit once they have logged 10 duels on the standings in a cycle. This benefit is the ability to test a challenger of their Baron. These 10 duels will need to be regained each new cycle for this perk to work. These 10 duels are linked to the current ongoing cycle and not when a squire is appointed. Squires who gain the Warlord Rank will no longer need to log these activity duels. We still encourage you to remain active so you are not removed from the standings.
  • Unlike the Overlord Test of Worthiness (Or grants that may award such privileges), the Squires request to test a challenger can be denied by their Baron.
  • When it comes to Loyal Barons the Overlords test will supersede the Squires request to test for their Baron. There is only one test.


The goal with these changes is to give the Squire role more impact in the Duel of Swords environment. With the Duel of Swords dynamics changing there will be more time spent in the late-game of Warlord and subsequent challenges than there will be leveling. This new Squire design will help foster a stronger bond between the Baron and Squire and will hopefully provide more story avenues.

The testing period begins tonight: January 15th, 2020. Squires who have dueled in the current cycle (2020 Winter Cycle) prior to this announcement may have their duels counted among their 10 needed.

We look forward to see what excitement and drama can be made from the Revised Squire! As always, please feel free to offer feedback both privately and to this thread.

Edited 4/12/2020 to remove exclusion of Grand Master for simplicity sake. Also removed following statement of: *= There is only 1 squire above Master At Arms and they are at 10 Wins. The maximum win record to become a squire in this test is 9, so we do not find this to be much of an issue. If you're interested to see why please visit this post for explanation: viewtopic.php?f=4&p=194145#p194145
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by Rhiannon Brock » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:23 pm

I like the idea of Squire being able to remain a Squire for SL purposes after they hit Warlord. Once the Warlord rank is hit, however, the Baron should still be allowed to appoint new one without penalty as is currently noted in the rules. (Lack of penalty wasn't noted above.)

A suggestion was made, some time ago, to allow Squires to champion their Barons. It's not the same as the Squire being allowed by the Baron to test a challenger, but if the rules will be changing to allow one, then why not allow the other as well? That way if a Renegade Baron, be it one already Renegade or a Loyal that was banished to Renegade, is subjected to a Test of Worthiness by the Overlord and a Renegade is not present to counter, the Squire can step up if the Baron allows it.
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by PC » Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:44 pm

Rhiannon Brock wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:23 pm
I like the idea of Squire being able to remain a Squire for SL purposes after they hit Warlord. Once the Warlord rank is hit, however, the Baron should still be allowed to appoint new one without penalty as is currently noted in the rules. (Lack of penalty wasn't noted above.)
6. The Overlord and Barons may only release a Squire on their own in order to name a new Squire Once every other cycle. This does not apply should the Squire achieve the Rank of Warlord. Squires may resign from their post for any reason and being removed from the standings will be viewed as voluntary resignation.

Answer in bold. They will not be penalized should they appoint a new squire after the first becomes Warlord. Though the former squire will lose the benefit of being able to test and the new squire must achieve the criteria to be able to do so.

Squire in this situation is beyond just ranking up. They are there to be in your corner, even after becoming Warlord, so long as they are your appointed squire (with the squire weapon and listed as such on the standings).
Rhiannon Brock wrote:
Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:23 pm
A suggestion was made, some time ago, to allow Squires to champion their Barons. It's not the same as the Squire being allowed by the Baron to test a challenger, but if the rules will be changing to allow one, then why not allow the other as well? That way if a Renegade Baron, be it one already Renegade or a Loyal that was banished to Renegade, is subjected to a Test of Worthiness by the Overlord and a Renegade is not present to counter, the Squire can step up if the Baron allows it.
A Renegade Baron already has the option to issue a counter to the Test of Worthiness when challenging the Overlord that's outside of other Renegades.

6. "Right of Challenge": Renegades may appoint only a warlord or a Renegade Baron as champion IF the Overlord elects to use the "Test of Worthiness" against them. The appointed champion may decline and the Renegade must then fight the Overlords Champion.

A Squire, who is of the Warlord Rank, can be appointed as a Champion in this case.
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by Rhiannon Brock » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:16 pm

The linked post, which I didn't quote here, states,
Rhiannon Brock wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:06 pm
In light of Norah's plans to update the rules, I have a change to suggest.

Under the rules regarding Renegade Barons:
6. "Right of Challenge": Renegades may appoint only a warlord champion IF the Overlord elects to use the "Test of Worthiness" against them. The appointed champion may decline.

Why not allow Squires, regardless or rank, to champion their Baron if the circumstances fit?
That doesn't fit the Warlord requirement already in place since most Squires are below Warlord in rank. Since Squires are being buffed, what I'm suggesting is that the rank not matter in the case of a Squire acting as a champion for their Baron.
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by PC » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:22 pm

I'll keep it in mind when a final draft is made for a revision if it becomes official. For now the key point of them being able to act as a tester will be the focus.

Edit: be sure to nudge me about it later on / in a future thread if this becomes official.
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by PC » Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:32 pm

Since a question was brought to me in private, I'll answer it here: When it comes to Loyal Barons the Overlords test will supersede the Squires request to test for their Baron. There is only one test.
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by PC » Sun Apr 12, 2020 3:26 pm

For now the testing of this rule may continue, I'll leave it to whoever takes charge of DoS after me to decide if it should be removed or kept once the Spring 2020 Cycle comes to an end.
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by PC » Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:13 pm

It was brought up to me by the player of Doran that they discovered their character was Grand Master ( 10 WoL ) when he became Squire of Old Market. I'll take the blame of not catching this, but with this line posted in the earlier part of the thread:

*= There is only 1 squire above Master At Arms and they are at 10 Wins. The maximum win record to become a squire in this test is 9, so we do not find this to be much of an issue.

I don't see it as much of an issue to retroactively change things. He gained the squire ship at 10 WoL, the same as the rank of the squire at the start of the rule testing that prompted the above quote. That and he came to me in good faith with this discovery and I thank him for doing that.

To be easier and more in line with the official rules about squires, I'm going to state that grandmasters can be appointed as squires during this testing period. If this becomes official in the future, whoever is in charge can choose to return it to Master At Arms or keep it as is (or change how they see fit), but for the sake of simplicity during this transitional period -- yes, grand masters can be appointed as squires and I will be updating the text of the tested rule post above to reflect that.

The negativity I can see about this is.. yes, this means a person with 14 wins, on the cusp of becoming Warlord, could be appointed to a position of squire, become Warlord, and be allowed to test for their Baron. To combat this -- the Baron can be challenged by other members of the community, and should they be dethroned, the squire would lose their position and be unable to regain it as a Warlord. This also means that, while the squire-character is acting as a Warlord Squire, they themselves cannot challenge and win a title without losing their position as squire as well.

There are ways that the community can combat behaviors they might deem as problematic or troublesome in character, and while I hope that no one exploits the good intentions of these tested rules, I understand if community members wish to take it upon themselves to deal with those who walk a little too close to the line purposely. Thank you.

--

Also for simplicity sake, the 10 duel requirement for non-Warlord squires is applied to the cycle itself and not when a character becomes a squire. This makes it much easier for tracking. This was the intention of the system and I believe I didn't state it more obviously, so I'm doing so here. Sorry for not making it more clear.
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by PC » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:12 pm

I've edited the post above to remove the Warlord Squire forum post requirement. The posting area on the IC Arena Forums has also been deleted.

Reason: Warlords can now be listed as squires on the official standing. Thanks Kalamere.

All and all, if any questions rise up during the challenge process and someone may be confused as to how your squire can test for you during this testing period, please direct them to this thread.
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Re: Winter 2020 Cycle Testing: Revised Squire (Challengers and Title Holders Please Read!)

Post by Tippletoe » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:31 am

The Revised Squire has been adopted into the July 2020 DoS Rules. You may find the Official Squire Rules HERE.
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