Stories from RhyDin & The Rings

Hello there!

I just read through Eden's post about suggestions on the boards and I wanted to take a moment to compile the ones I've made into a single thing for review. Hopefully I'll get them all.

1) Increase in bot use. I think we've grown enough, member-wise, since we started for there to be a couple more layers to the way we're organized. At the same time, I've visited other servers that have a brajillion bots in use and that's equally a turn-off for me as it looks convoluted and complicated.

My suggestion for their use centers on granting the userbase the ability to filter IC from OOC, and perhaps, on another level, dueling from regular RP. There's a giant overlap, right now, that makes our discord, really, seem like one gigantic AIM buddy list with some sideline group chats. I know that for me, personally, the ability to "opt out" of the Lobby chat would be extremely beneficial because I miss the ability to "click out" of that chat, when we had a chat. I think that having one bot with separate reaction emojis for regular RP, dueling, and OOC would be great.

Likewise, along with that, having a command list for the Nexus bot to differentiate which setting players are in would be great too. (I.e.: rp on 1 will flag you as playing in the RDI. Rp on 2 would flag you for City Square, and so on.)

2) Piggybacking on my feeling for organization, I think it would be beneficial for us to have a separate OOC news channel specifically for Dueling News. The way things are now, it's very hard for regular events to compete with the spree of dueling events, updates, standing updates, and edits that go on with that half of the community. I feel that giving it its own channel would not only help clean up the list of announcements we have, but it may encourage people to use the regular, playable section for their own IC events, or at least it will be easier for us to see them when they're posted so they don't get lost.

That's all that I've got for now! I'll ping you guys if I have any more.

Thanks so much for reviewing!

Item 2 is pretty clear. (And has been a topic of discussion many times.)

Item 1 is still a little confusing. That looks like multiple things?

a. something about bots (we've presently only got one)
b. something about turning off OOC (which people can already do by muting the channel and turning off notifications, so we're not sure what the ask is)
c. something about emojis, which I think we need an example for, as it's not clear what you mean <-- Claire provided a sample of this. So, we think we understand this one now.

Can you expand upon what you mean by item 1 and the sub-parts?

We do have this page by the way...

https://rhydin.org/discord/status.php

Which is a useful way to see who's in what channel (if they are playing) and allows people to set status things like "at the bar"

If you are looking for a way to spot check to see who's playing where, that might be what you are looking for.

(I've set my status to being in the RDI and at the bar to provide an example.)

Hi, Cris! Thank you for sharing your suggestions. I know Jake already replied, but I'd like to drill down on a few specific things that jumped out at me with some clarifying questions:

As far as filtering out the dueling and non-dueling venues, do you mean seeing people in the "Currently in Play" role who are playing in dueling venues?

Can you explain what you mean by reaction emojis? Do you mean those as an alternative to the current text commands?

The other parts I think I understand better. We do currently have the status role as Jake showed, which can be accessed via the page he linked as well as bot commands (?rp red-dragon-inn to set you as playing in the RDI, ?rp show to show you who's where), but I understand that doesn't place people in different roles on the Discord server -- currently everyone in play goes in one category on the server memberlist itself, regardless of venue.

Some quick immediate thoughts that came to mind, after reading the discussion so far. Apologies if this muddies the waters, that's not my intent at all.

1. With regards to an "opt out" option for the lobby chat, yes, I'm aware you can mute that channel or collapse all the OOC channels to hide them. But I think what could be done, since player-announcements and server-announcements usually contain more important/timely information, is separate the Lobby channel from the rest of the OOC channels in that menu. That way you can collapse the Lobby channel to hide it from sight, while still being able to see the announcements in another grouping.

2. I think it's a good idea to add an another channel (dueling-announcements, maybe?) in addition to player-announcements (for RP events that don't have a dueling component) and server-announcements. I know there might be some trepidation about adding another channel, but I think nested properly, it won't clutter things up all that much,

Jake wrote:Item 1 is still a little confusing. That looks like multiple things?

a. something about bots (we've presently only got one)
b. something about turning off OOC (which people can already do by muting the channel and turning off notifications, so we're not sure what the ask is)
c. something about emojis, which I think we need an example for, as it's not clear what you mean <-- Claire provided a sample of this. So, we think we understand this one now.

Can you expand upon what you mean by item 1 and the sub-parts?

I'm so glad she did, because she's actually one of the ones I was going to solicit to get advice on how to explain it better.

What I've seen in servers the size of ours, and bigger, are user roles that people can opt into by clicking into it. Typically, this means that the admin has set up a list of emoji reactions (like our Fistmelda) attached to those roles. Maybe my suggestion and my way of going about doing it don't mesh up, and if that's the case, I apologize. I know what I mean to mean, I just sometimes have trouble saying it out loud. But my idea was that there would be 4-5 of these roles that people could opt into. OOC chat, OOC News, IC regular, IC dueling---to name a few. If a user "opts into" the role, those channels attached to that role will become accessible to them. If they don't, the channels are removed from their list, streamlining their experience so they're not bogged down. I understand that muting is the current system to quiet the flow, but for some (like me), the ability to remove it entirely would work better as an option.

Mallory wrote:The other parts I think I understand better. We do currently have the status role as Jake showed, which can be accessed via the page he linked as well as bot commands (?rp red-dragon-inn to set you as playing in the RDI, ?rp show to show you who's where), but I understand that doesn't place people in different roles on the Discord server -- currently everyone in play goes in one category on the server memberlist itself, regardless of venue.

^ That is precisely what I'm looking for. I know that there's a status tool in place and that a number of us have used it with success. But I also believe that the current system can be improved upon---particularly if you only have a millisecond to check discord and not enough time to fling a command to Nexus bot to see who is where and what they're doing. I think that an at-a-glance situation would benefit us because it will be more user friendly to those that only have a quick second, people that are on their phones, and especially new players who are trying to get into the swing of things.

I know that I would like to be able to take a look at a room and know which one I'm going to be paying attention to. I would also like the have the ability to display where I'm writing so that anyone wanting to hop on board can take a look and see for themselves right away.

Bailey Raptis wrote:1. With regards to an "opt out" option for the lobby chat, yes, I'm aware you can mute that channel or collapse all the OOC channels to hide them. But I think what could be done, since player-announcements and server-announcements usually contain more important/timely information, is separate the Lobby channel from the rest of the OOC channels in that menu. That way you can collapse the Lobby channel to hide it from sight, while still being able to see the announcements in another grouping.

^ I actually did not think of this at all, but Bailey raises an amazing point. If the emoji role thing (there has to be a better name for it) is found to be too complicated or unnecessary, I think this change would be an excellent consolation.

Like's been mentioned, I'm not positive I understand the emjoi's suggestion. I'd like to though, so would love if that can be elaborated on.

For the lobby - if you mute it, the channel doesn't light up anymore to show that there are new messages. I'm also not clear what the difference is in separating it into its own collapsible section. You end up with a display that's either:

> lobby - if collapsing the section
or
# lobby - if left as is.

Either way, it's still on the list.

As far as the RP command and specifying what room you're playing in though, this is one we've gone back and forth on for a long while really. I tried to implement room and status by extending the existing command to allow for them, but since the display is a bot command or webpage only, it didn't really do the trick and isn't used much. So, having given it more thought on how I might be able to code such a thing, I think we've come up with a new way to do this.

* The "currently in play" role will be removed and in its place a role for each existing room will be created (eg: # red-dragon-inn or # arena). New roles will work the same way, with anyone having them being displayed separately from the "online" list at the top right.

* Turning your RP flag on will become an in room command (rather than a DM to the bot. DMs to the bot for RP on, or from a non play room, will just produce an error). Whatever room you are in, you just send ?rp on to the room. The bot will then add you to the role for that room, so you don't have to go and pick from a list. It'll also remove the room send you made and in its place send "So-and-so has entered" to the room, like the old FC room entry messages.

* Turning RP off will continue as is, either to the bot or the room. I'll try to work something into the code that will send "So-and-so has left" when you do that.

* I'm not sure yet about setting a room status. I'm going to try and retain it, but we'll see how complicated that makes the code. If it does stay though, it'll be as it is today and displayed only via bot command or the web page. I can't come up with a better way to make that work.

That's my thinking on how to change RP display. Subject to change once I get into the code or someone has an idea that'll work better.

ETA: Cris posted while I was writing the above, so i think I get the emoji thing now. Granted I don't know how to code it, or that we necessarily should if I did, but I do grasp what you're getting at.

Bailey Raptis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:14 pm 1. With regards to an "opt out" option for the lobby chat, yes, I'm aware you can mute that channel or collapse all the OOC channels to hide them. But I think what could be done, since player-announcements and server-announcements usually contain more important/timely information, is separate the Lobby channel from the rest of the OOC channels in that menu. That way you can collapse the Lobby channel to hide it from sight, while still being able to see the announcements in another grouping.

I second this idea. Sometimes I pop into the lobby, most of the time I'd just like to see the announcements. I think this is a quick an easy one to set up.

Crispin wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:06 pm 2) Piggybacking on my feeling for organization, I think it would be beneficial for us to have a separate OOC news channel specifically for Dueling News. The way things are now, it's very hard for regular events to compete with the spree of dueling events, updates, standing updates, and edits that go on with that half of the community. I feel that giving it its own channel would not only help clean up the list of announcements we have, but it may encourage people to use the regular, playable section for their own IC events, or at least it will be easier for us to see them when they're posted so they don't get lost.

Bailey Raptis wrote: ↑Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:14 pm 2. I think it's a good idea to add an another channel (dueling-announcements, maybe?) in addition to player-announcements (for RP events that don't have a dueling component) and server-announcements. I know there might be some trepidation about adding another channel, but I think nested properly, it won't clutter things up all that much,

I have some concerns about this one. For too long there has been a schism between duellers and non-duellers. (Note, I did not say RP'ers and duellers, as duelling *is* roleplay, just with an added aspect of a game). I don't like the idea of furthering that schism by separating the announcements for events into duelling and non-duelling. So far, from what I've seen, updates and standing updates are not currently posted in the player announcements. If I scroll back through the current Player Announcements I see the following:

Mallory being delayed from hosting at the Perch, but she ended up being there anyway, Reiko hosting a French Toast night on Friday, the beginning of the Spellblade Tournament, and Pie Night Fight Night - which is intended for the *entire* community, not just duellers. Before that is Tweeter, and Hope's tips on climbing in fists. Even from that small sample you have:

- 3 non-duelling based announcements (Tweeter, Mallory at the Perch, French Toast Night)
- 1 duelling/non-duelling combined announcement (Pie Night Fight Night)
- 2 duelling announcements (Spellblade Tournament, Fists Tips)

That looks fairly balanced to me. Player Announcements are just that, they are they for all players. I feel like separating out our community into duellers and non-duellers will actually add to the competitiveness. Ideally, we should see all events as RP opportunities.

Looking further back, when there is a slew of challenges happening very close together I can see how it can look like there is a huge duelling focus. However, I also find these can draw out a nice crowd of ALL people who role-play, not just duellers.

If we are going to draw a line in the sand for making another channel for announcements I'd prefer to see it separated as host-announcements and player-announcements. Host announcements could be for hosts/callers - including challenges, tournaments, and hosted nights such as Mallory at the Perch. Whereas player-announcements could be non-host driven events, such as the upcoming Governors Election or if a baron decides to run a Squire Tournament. This could make it more welcoming for players to put in their own events since they would be separate from host/caller events while not drawing a line in the sand between duellers and non-duellers.

Kal posted while I was drafting up my response, and I just want to put this out here, THANK YOU KAL. The amount of time - volunteer time - you invest with the bots and coding is amazing. Thanks for all the great work you do.

Kalamer wrote: Like's been mentioned, I'm not positive I understand the emjoi's suggestion. I'd like to though, so would love if that can be elaborated on.

For the lobby - if you mute it, the channel doesn't light up anymore to show that there are new messages. I'm also not clear what the difference is in separating it into its own collapsible section. You end up with a display that's either:

> lobby - if collapsing the section
or
# lobby - if left as is.

Either way, it's still on the list.

Point raised and taken. I sometimes forget how discord works.

Kalamere wrote:As far as the RP command and specifying what room you're playing in though, this is one we've gone back and forth on for a long while really. I tried to implement room and status by extending the existing command to allow for them, but since the display is a bot command or webpage only, it didn't really do the trick and isn't used much. So, having given it more thought on how I might be able to code such a thing, I think we've come up with a new way to do this.

* The "currently in play" role will be removed and in its place a role for each existing room will be created (eg: # red-dragon-inn or # arena). New roles will work the same way, with anyone having them being displayed separately from the "online" list at the top right.

* Turning your RP flag on will become an in room command (rather than a DM to the bot. DMs to the bot for RP on, or from a non play room, will just produce an error). Whatever room you are in, you just send ?rp on to the room. The bot will then add you to the role for that room, so you don't have to go and pick from a list. It'll also remove the room send you made and in its place send "So-and-so has entered" to the room, like the old FC room entry messages.

* Turning RP off will continue as is, either to the bot or the room. I'll try to work something into the code that will send "So-and-so has left" when you do that.

* I'm not sure yet about setting a room status. I'm going to try and retain it, but we'll see how complicated that makes the code. If it does stay though, it'll be as it is today and displayed only via bot command or the web page. I can't come up with a better way to make that work.

That's my thinking on how to change RP display. Subject to change once I get into the code or someone has an idea that'll work better.

^ The way this is laid out, sir, sounds phenomenal.

Michelle Montoya wrote:If we are going to draw a line in the sand for making another channel for announcements I'd prefer to see it separated as host-announcements and player-announcements. Host announcements could be for hosts/callers - including challenges, tournaments, and hosted nights such as Mallory at the Perch. Whereas player-announcements could be non-host driven events, such as the upcoming Governors Election or if a baron decides to run a Squire Tournament. This could make it more welcoming for players to put in their own events since they would be separate from host/caller events while not drawing a line in the sand between duellers and non-duellers.

^ I also like this idea if there really is a concern with splitting the community in half again. My thinking was that dueling could be in one place so that if that was all you were into, you could find all your stuff in one thing. Or if the other side is what you were into, you could find it all in one thing. But I like your suggestion, Michelle, too. The level of organization is maintained without giving the impression that we want another split.

Going to try to touch on a few things here.

A host/caller announcements channel, along with more of a traditional "playable" channel, seems tenable to me.

I think the idea of making it so that ?rp on sent to a room puts you in that room with a message that says your character has entered the room is a great idea. This could easily link into the "emoji" thing that's been brought up too. On some servers, there is a bot and a channel linked to that bot, with a set of clickable emojis that could be used to indicate a certain room -- let's say a dragon for the Red Dragon Inn, Swords for the Arena, Fists for the Outback, a globe for Twilight Isle, etc. You can jump into that channel, click on that emoji, and it will change your display on the right hand side to indicate you have entered that room. And then you click again when you're ready to stop playing. I'm not sure how well this would play with the ?rp on/?rp off commands, but I know there are a few people who just leave the ?rp on on whenever they're actually online on our server, and the emojis definitely felt more intuitive than a line command. But, if that's not feasible, sending a command into the room seems perfectly fine to me.

And as for the collapsible section stuff:

Right now, it’s nested like this, right?

OOC

• Lobby
• Player-Announcements
• Server-Announcements

So if you click the thing to hide all the OOC channels, you can’t see the Player Announcements or Server Announcements as well. If you had a Lobby Channel with just the lobby, and an announcements channel with the announcements, you could “hide” the lobby, and still be able to see the announcements roll in as they roll in.

So:

Lobby

• Lobby

Announcements

• Player-Announcements
• Server-Announcements

Hopefully that makes more sense?

Bailey wrote: Hopefully that makes more sense?

Not really?

When you collapse a category, the category header is still displayed. So one way or the other, "lobby" still shows on the screen and you've not gained any real estate.

Here's what the two look like side by side with what's there today on the left and the proposed category layout with lobby as a collapsed category on the right. Red horizontal lines added to demonstrate position:



It actually looks like categories have a bit more padding than do chat channels by themselves, so I think you lose a fraction on an inch, even with lobby collapsed. For arguments sake though, let's say they're identical. What's the gain here?

I guess I could see savings if it were the announcement channels, rather than the lobby, being collapsed, but that doesn't seem to be what's being sought.

Since I'm discussing real estate, that also brings up the topic of splitting the announcement channels into different categories. Whether that's dueling vs non or patron vs staff, we'll say adding one more category to the top of the channel list, which I'd say is prime real estate.

The problem I have with the suggestion is the issue of volume. The list Michelle gave was 6 postings between Aug. 8th and Aug 20th (12 days). Or, .5 announcements per day. I've looked over the player-announce channel posting volume in the past (this idea was brought up by someone else back around the time of the DoS Madness tournament) and the busiest week I found consisted of 2 messages per day, while the average came out to be 1.04 per day across the full 24 weeks of the sample that included all of Madness.

I have trouble accepting that we need to double the allocation of prime real estate so that 2 channels can handle, on average, 2-5 messages per week.

Just wanted to add real quick that I apologize if the above come off overly negative.

I love that suggestions are being made and am going to work towards the RP roles thing discussed.

Other ideas I may not agree with, but that doesn't mean I'm not happy to see the suggestions made. When I don't agree, I want to explain why rather than blow someone off or just ignore a thing. Sorry if I don't always do that in the best of ways, I don't mean to insult or keep future ideas from flowing in.

This is good discussion and feedback, and I'm happy Kal has brought up so many points.

Regarding adding an extra channel, I'm curious to know if there are players out there who don't post player driven events because they feel it's either:

a) too crowded
Or
b) not their space