Age Appropriate Live Play

[Pharlen]

What doesn't seem to be addressed in the forum's policy or Discord's is whether or not the presence of minor, fictional or real, should cause certain activities should be curtailed or amended. Maybe that does need to be addressed.

Collie, can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I follow. Are you suggesting that if there are fictional minors present in a live play that other players should self-censor their own play accordingly?

Some players do censor their behavior, but the old grump will not. I would not expect people to change anything, but to play as they would play with a kid around, whether it's 'I am so fed up with seeing kids around here!' or 'omg I love kids!'.

OOC, I tend to be careful where and when I put my characters. They have to have a reason to be in places. They're never going to show up in Bella's House of Boobies (unless plot driven, and then there will be no sexualization of said boobies and characters).

We had this issue in the 3D art community. People were making child-like characters and putting them into adult situations. So. The criterion is now: if the character appears to be under 18, it must be fully covered. No hanky panky.

And then there's the YT books.

Moving right along... Just like any character, a kid character is going to deal with RhyDin.

But seriously, my fantasy world has kids in it. If you don't like the character I'm playing, just let me know and I'll keep my character occupied with something else.

[Gothrak]

The question is why would you challenge or duel someone who makes you uncomfortable?

If one party holds a tower or is in a tournament or what have you and the other party wants to try to get that tower, or barony or opal what have you. I'm just not sure how that would work. I'm too lazy to challenge for anything anyway but I am concerned that if I do one day and all the people that hold station have me on block or ignore, I'm then stuck not getting the opportunity everyone else has. Or I have to wait until someone else takes it then challenge them. So...mostly just hypothetical situation but I'm sure that's the case for some folks.

Talking things out isn't always going to get the solution we all want. We can claim that we're listening to each others feelings but at the end of the day many are going to do what they find fun so long as they aren't breaking the guidelines.

Very true. I play monsters and I know that my handling of sensitive subjects have incidentally bothered people in the past but I've never been approached to discuss how I could be more sensitive or dial back what is bothering someone. I've only heard 2nd hand. So I've had to guess on how to better approach things and since I don't know, it feels like walking on eggshells.

This is somewhat of an issue. Are you saying that someone was falsely punished or is this a general statement?

hmm, no, not falsely punished. I guess more using mods as intermediaries instead of talking directly to a person, or talking to their friends to complain but that goes back to people not feeling comfortable talking to one another for one reason or another.

This is not new. We seem to have this issue prop itself up every couple of years in the form of one perceived issue or the other and part of me wonders if it's less about outrage and more about one clique disliking something another is doing and if that is the case,

That there are cliques at all is part of the problem...but when you get so many people in one space, I guess it's inevitable. I just feel tired, y'know? I miss having fun with everyone. When there weren't weird lines drawn in sand. I'm having bad high school flashbacks. My problem of optimistically hoping everyone will get along...we all have RP in common.

[Bailey Raptis]

This is probably going to be more of a general response to the thread than it is a response to any specific comments or posters, because there are a lot of people saying a lot of things, and I do want to say my piece about this.

I play John Augur aka Vox Clamantis. John is one of a few of the "whores" who have been played recently, as part of Ettyn Gedda's cheering section. I think it's safe to say that John is a pretty brash character. He cheers loudly, sings bawdy songs, traffics in innuendo on occasion, dueled once in his boxer shorts, and he hangs out with other prostitutes and courtesans. He sometimes dances sexy dances. However, I feel personally that I have kept his play well away from being explicit. When he says rude things, sings rude things, or makes rude gestures, I leave it up to people's imaginations to picture what he's doing, as opposed to actually writing out what he's said or done. I obviously can't control everyone's reactions to him, or the other "prostitute" characters, but my goal in playing him isn't to make people uncomfortable, it's to have him cheer on duelists and just be a sort of a big, goofy dude.

I will freely admit that I am likely biased here, since I play one of these characters, but I honestly don't think anything I've seen in play from any of them can compete with some of the other content here I've seen that's unsettling. I'm not trying to call anyone out for that, just stating that I feel like this isn't the worst thing I've seen on the server, and, when I've seen play on the server that doesn't interest me or leaves me feeling uneasy, I just...avoid it.

[Royal]

The question is why would you challenge or duel someone who makes you uncomfortable?

There are Towers, Baronies, and Opals that are important to some characters and would be useful in their RP'd stories. Should we not challenge those titles and wait for someone who we don't have blocked to hold them? What if the person challenged has the other person blocked? Do they get to skirt the abandonment rules?

I see no issue in challenging someone who has you on block so long as it is not in the form of harassment. You simply do not talk to them privately, you post times and dates publicly on the boards so that everyone (staff and both parties included) have proof that the challenge process is being done correctly. The title holder accepts the offered dates/times or counters with their own, OOC or IC, and the challenge happens like any normal challenge would. Both parties can choose to send in moves to the bot and nothing to the room, vague-post, or have a one-sided RP without mentioning your opponent; it's whatever the players are comfortable with. So long as the challenge process itself is completed correctly and within a timely manner then by the rules everything is fine.

At times a title holder may choose to drop their title instead of dealing with the challenger. Personally, I would recommend not challenging someone with the intention to see them drop their title. That seems rather petty.

Harassment cases differ. Let us say the two parties are obviously not getting along, reports have been made to staff months in advance and an agreement was made that they would not interact. Should you (general) break this then sport staff may look at it to deem if it is a case of harassment.

I would also like to point out that stories are what you make them. You, the player, decide if an Opal, Tower, or Barony is important to your character. We can all say "well it's what my character would do" but at the end of the day you are the one to finalize any decision making and can easily change the McGuffin needed for your story. Challenging also does not mean you are set to win, so it may be better to not make plans for a title before obtaining it.

If one party holds a tower or is in a tournament or what have you and the other party wants to try to get that tower, or barony or opal what have you. I'm just not sure how that would work. I'm too lazy to challenge for anything anyway but I am concerned that if I do one day and all the people that hold station have me on block or ignore, I'm then stuck not getting the opportunity everyone else has. Or I have to wait until someone else takes it then challenge them. So...mostly just hypothetical situation but I'm sure that's the case for some folks.

This is actually a case that DoM has covered in the past. In the case of Tournaments the Nexus Guide calls the duel. You send moves to it. You can choose to RP or not during the duel, your opponent may choose to RP or not. The Nexus Guide is acting as the go-between in this case so there is no need to worry about dueling someone who may have you on block. By joining the tournament both players make a social contract to have to deal with these situations. You (general) may dislike someone and see them join the tournament you've signed up for; you can choose to continue to participate or not. They have the right to participate in the tournament as much as you do.

Edited to add: If you know someone has you on block then honestly not RPing at them when fighting in a tournament or challenge, or even RP in general, is the best idea. This is my opinion. I don't see a reason to offer anything that could be scrutinized. This is not directed to anyone or any side, this is general purpose for anyone who wants to just chill and not deal with possible drama stemming from what could be perceived as an attack if one were to attempt to look and scrutinize your posts.

[Gothrak]

I will freely admit that I am likely biased here, since I play one of these characters, but I honestly don't think anything I've seen in play from any of them can compete with some of the other content here I've seen that's unsettling. I'm not trying to call anyone out for that, just stating that I feel like this isn't the worst thing I've seen on the server, and, when I've seen play on the server that doesn't interest me or leaves me feeling uneasy, I just...avoid it.

I'm running out of spoons today but I do thank you for commenting. I would like to say that, knowing you didn't intend it to be offensive or overly crude is appreciated. I am curious how would you have reacted to being told I or whoever else may have contacted you regarding their feelings? Would you have said 'too bad, don't look. Ignore it.' Would you have had a conversation with them? Would you have simply blocked them?

It's hard to avoid certain things completely. Especially where duels are concerned since they're only in certain venues at certain times. Like...if it was play I was uncomfortable with in an Inn, I'd just wander off to another Inn or any of the other rooms...Duels and Planned events are hard to avoid cause that is where most of the RP and community is. That is where a lot of character's stories revolve.

gah, it's all complicated and frustrating.

[Gothrak]

This is actually a case that DoM has covered in the past. In the case of Tournaments the Nexus Guide calls the duel. You send moves to it. You can choose to RP or not during the duel, your opponent may choose to RP or not. The Nexus Guide is acting as the go-between in this case so there is no need to worry about dueling someone who may have you on block. By joining the tournament both players make a social contract to have to deal with these situations. You (general) may dislike someone and see them join the tournament you've signed up for; you can choose to continue to participate or not. They have the right to participate in the tournament as much as you do.

Ohhhhhh okay =) Cool. Thanks for putting that concern in my head to rest.

[Royal]

This is actually a case that DoM has covered in the past. In the case of Tournaments the Nexus Guide calls the duel. You send moves to it. You can choose to RP or not during the duel, your opponent may choose to RP or not. The Nexus Guide is acting as the go-between in this case so there is no need to worry about dueling someone who may have you on block. By joining the tournament both players make a social contract to have to deal with these situations. You (general) may dislike someone and see them join the tournament you've signed up for; you can choose to continue to participate or not. They have the right to participate in the tournament as much as you do.

Ohhhhhh okay =) Cool. Thanks for putting that concern in my head to rest.

I added an edit in my reply but I'll post it here so it's not missed.

If you know someone has you on block then honestly not RPing at them when fighting in a tournament or challenge, or even RP in general, is the best idea. This is my opinion. I don't see a reason to offer anything that could be scrutinized. This is not directed to anyone or any side, this is general purpose for anyone who wants to just chill and not deal with possible drama stemming from what could be perceived as an attack if one were to attempt to look and scrutinize your posts.

If you have any more DoM related questions then feel free to reach out to me in private through the PM function on the forum here: Helea Alwin

[Michelle Montoya]

Especially where duels are concerned since they're only in certain venues at certain times.

Although we feature/open dueling in specific venues, you can duel in all venues on all nights. If you see people in a dueling venue, such as the Arena, and you'd rather not duel there with those people in play, you can go to the Arcade, Outback, or Twilight Isle to duel. The bot will record all duels and all of them will be considered valid. Just use the correct command for the location you wish to duel in.

[Death Knell]

I play Ettyn Gedda, the monster slayer who has been using the Cardinal Inn to house a number of prostitutes, whom she refers to as "whores." They are a bawdy bunch who will sometimes follow her into the Arena to cheer her on. To me it seemed like something fun and light to focus on instead of Arena politics, something I personally do not enjoy.

I was a little surprised when this thread came up, given our community's historic comfort with implied sex and innuendo, and that we have seen and do see similar and more intense than what's being highlighted here.

I understand that we all have different comfort levels for what we encounter in live play, including things that may well be within the guidelines. It falls to us to manage that for ourselves, by reaching out to each other and asking for sensitivity, tuning it out or otherwise focusing on or creating play that interests us instead, removing ourselves from the play, or blocking the other player or players until the play is done. And during recent Arena challenges, I chose to play into something that interested me.

I brought Ettyn into play yesterday, and I will admit that I felt a great deal of anxiety about how I was playing and how it would be viewed. I knew my behavior to be well within our community guidelines, but I was asking myself instead, what impression is this play making on anyone watching me play? Will it come up in a public discussion or complaint?

When play that has been a part of our community for a long time is suddenly a serious concern with a thread with over a thousand views, it's hard not to feel that what myself and players highlighted here are playing is under intense scrutiny. I have considered whether it is easier to simply not have Ettyn's fan club around anymore, or if I should withdraw Ettyn from play on RhyDin.org altogether, in order to shake off that feeling of scrutiny. But I know I'll just be left asking myself if any other character I play is okay, or if aspects of that play that are otherwise accepted in our community are just going to create more problems.

I know that I'm a member of staff. I'm also a player who likes to play. I volunteer for this community because I love roleplaying, and creating hooks and opportunities for others to join in. I'm going to try my best to continue to do that.

[Dah]

One of the draws of ROD for me was that we could write more adult themes and content. I felt like we were forced to censor and hamstring ourselves on DM and this place felt more free. The vast majority of players on here ARE adults, and I feel like joining the server should be done with some discretion. But, it kinda seems like some folks expect us to curtail our behavior to suit the sensibilities of possible children wandering in. I'm not a big fan of that. The person should conform to the standards of the venue. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we should be posting explicit sex or anything like that, but I also don't like the idea that some people basically have to change how they play their characters. The block feature exists. I mean, it sucks that you might miss out on some stuff, but at least you won't see any material you deem offensive. Seems a fair trade, compared to people having run their characters through other people's filters.

[Regina Wellston]

I have read and watched this thread intently the past few days. Trying my best to take everyone’s opinions and look at each from a different perspective. You all know me, I’ve tried my best to get my characters out into Rhydin proper and get them invested in all the things this community has to be proud of. I will admit that I write one of the more ‘adult’ characters we have been referencing, Flower. When the concept came up I thought it was a great way to bring a whole new fun and comical view to the duels and hoped that the bawdy way the characters acted would bring smiles to everyone’s faces. I’m all about making everyone smile and laugh and what better way through pun like innuendos and shenanigans..That is, until I saw this discussion and realized that not everyone might think the same things are funny. Never in my wildest imaginations did I think that anything any of the characters did was something so overly suggestive as to cause a discussion of this proportion. I hate to think that anyone would think of others acting in a clique or in a group that would want to exclude or offend anyone. Especially when some members of this little bunch are two of the most helpful people on this server. What I didn’t expect was to feel that sinking sensation that something that I had written might have helped to cast a bad light on myself or others that I respect highly here. I agree with the fact that things do need to be censored, when they are blatant and obvious. No where, in any of the scenes that the group has been out and about, is there anything that I feel that is to over the top but I, like John’s writer, might be biased. But tell me, when have things become so overly sensitized that they needed to be brought up in a fashion like this? I’m all for open communication and for expressing feelings, but I think that if we all take just a step back, take a deep breath, and try to look at the entire situation without jaded lenses over our eyes, we might be able to find a common ground. I hate that anything like this would have someone second guessing their writing. I am my own worst critic and have dealt with my own issues and insecurities about my writing which, I feel that most of us have, and hope that none of you ever feel that from me. I joined this group because of the encouragement of creativity I found. The ability to write amazing tales with talented writers who knew how to take a seed of an idea and turn it into a beanstalk for us all to climb is the entire reason I continue to come back again and again. I have seen things that bother me in all sorts of public scenes and even if they did offend me, I chose to simply move on and let it be why? Because I would never want to cause someone to want to consider changing their own creative enjoyment to appease mine. This...is just my two cents, take them for what they are.

[Felicity Lakeman]

I talked to Michelle about something I said for a bit last night and I just want to clarify my stance.

I ran a nonprofit that held adult only events. We also had youth only days on the weekends where there were no adults other than the ones who ran that program in the building.

Some people refused to support the nonprofit because of the adult only stuff that happened in the space throughout the week, even if the youth were never in the space at the same time and everything was put away.

That overlap is what I’m talking about. I didn’t suggest changing to be considered adult only so we can be more explicit or whatever else, if I wanted an ERP server, I know where to find them. All I was saying was that there are some of us (based on the number of DMs I received after posting) who are uncomfortable with the minors who may join the space when there are themes that can be considered sexual in nature.

Don’t change how you play! I am suggesting posting some kind of indication that it’s meant more for adults when advertising happens because of the themes. That’s it. This could include violence, drug use, etc. because it’s mostly adults writing for adults. We can’t stop the youth, but at least we’ve made it pretty clear what kind of writing is happening.

I have feelings about other things that were shared but I’m genuinely uncomfortable stating them based on some of the other comments I have seen.

[Morgan LaLuna]

Due to the nature of the party, at Jaycy’s direction, elementals served as guardians of the door and redirected any non-adults back to the beach and the rings.

I believe that was covered in the post I was specifically called out for.

[Jaycy Ashleana]

Due to the nature of the party, at Jaycy’s direction, elementals served as guardians of the door and redirected any non-adults back to the beach and the rings.

I believe that was covered in the post I was specifically called out for.

To make it absolutely clear, by the way, while Morgan actually posted the description and photos, I was fully involved and wrote as much if not more than Morgan of the description, and found the photos (not all of which were used). I picked photos based on lists of natural aphrodisiacs. It was my idea and decision to make the party adults-only; Jaycy IC would have wanted it that way.

[BardGallant]

All that being said, we can be following all the rules and people will/are still feeling uncomfortable. Aside from labelling ourselves 18+ (which may come with other responsibilities on our server and forums), are there specific recommendations for changing our Community Guidelines? Things people want to add? Modify?

I want you to know that I am mulling over this question, and I'm probably going to be thinking on it for a good long while yet. As it is, I currently have no suggestions. It's a lot to think about, and my free time is limited. I'd much prefer to spend it having fun, writing and dueling, but I'll reserve some for reviewing the guidelines as they are now to see if inspiration strikes. So I may come back to this at some point.

---

Now. The one important point I want to make to everyone reading this, engaged in the conversation.

Please note that I do not want to discourage you from playing these characters you enjoy. As I said before, my discomfort is mine, and I know how to deal with it. I'll simply avoid them if I see them in play, as I have been doing. Gloss over them and likely not react. I don't want any of you to take this personally. I don't want to ignore you. I simply do not want to engage those particular characters and the scenarios they are enacting. I don't want to read it, so I won't.

The very last thing I want is for people to feel like they have to adhere to a specific acceptable model of play or writing, that they are being monitored or policed. We are a very diverse community with varying interests. Our comfort zones are not all completely in alignment. What one person finds funny, another might find offensive. I have never personally found "sex jokes" to be funny. And honestly, these whore characters are just one giant sex joke in action. I'm not going to appreciate them the way you might want, and that's just how it is.

I felt the need to speak up to say, "Yes I am one of the people who is uncomfortable with this," because unfortunately I feel like these things I am uncomfortable with have been pushed in my face. Like one might with a pie that they have proudly baked and want to share with all their friends, not realizing that one of them simply does not like pie. Not wanting to offend, that friend accepts a slice of pie, and might even take a bite saying, "Yum." Rest assured, though, they are going to run to the nearest toilet to spit it out and probably feed their slice to the dog as soon as no one is looking.

And yes. I don't like pie, either. I'm not going to tell you not to eat it, though. Nor do I expect you not to eat it in my presence, or at all, whether you know about my dislike of pie or not.