Let's chit chat about rules.

Out of Character message board for the Duel of Swords

Moderator: Staff

User avatar
Kalamere
Black Wizard
Black Wizard
Devil's Advocate

Posts: 1824
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2005 10:45 pm
Location: Dragon's Gate
Contact:

Post by Kalamere »

The 13 week ruling wasn't so much a rule change as it was a rule clarification. As Queen wrote, the initial version of the rule was vague
Queen wrote:
the rule wrote:* You are required to duel -ONCE- every cycle to continue to gain these rights.
That is how the rule previously read which could be interpreted two ways: once in a cycle's length (aka x weeks) or once *per* cycle meaning if you get a duel in Week 12 of this cycle, starting Week 1 of the next you have not met your requirements for Challenge Rights. This is no doubt why the change was made and I think it makes perfect sense, less questions.
Clearing up an obvious ambiguity, even if that involves a moderate reworking to make the most sense, isn't the same as a new rule and by necessity should be handled differently than a sweeping change like the October rules patch. In essence, it needed to be done "instantly" because it was a needed clarification.

For the proposed 2 month change, yes, it should probably be well announced and phased in, with any initial violations thereof dealt with in terms a simple reminder and statement that they should get in a duel before the next standings and re-issue. I hadn't gotten a sense that G&G intended to be draconian about it.
User avatar
DUEL Gabby
RoH Official
RoH Official
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:19 pm

Post by DUEL Gabby »

Spell wrote:The new rules had a bit of time before being established in cycle after they were announced. Then one rule was changed to the 13 week rule, and now there is talk of that rule being changed as well. I agree 100% that challengers should take responsibility and take the time to read, but that's mostly wishful thinking in hoping that everyone in the community will take the time to do that.

Though a slap on the wrist and a warning to read the new rule amendment seems well enough.
If rules don't work, they should be reviewed. Especially if there have been numerous complaints and concerns. I understand that changing something too frequently can cause confusion but not fixing something that is flawed can cause problems as well.

*This is why we are throwing it onto the forum for discussion, so that we might be able to find a compromise and then not have to go back and change it again.* Transparency is good for this situation.
Image
User avatar
Spell
Expert Adventurer
Expert Adventurer
Cult of Personality

Posts: 932
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:16 am

Post by Spell »

DUEL Gabby wrote:If rules don't work, they should be reviewed. Especially if there have been numerous complaints and concerns. I understand that changing something too frequently can cause confusion but not fixing something that is flawed can cause problems as well.

*This is why we are throwing it onto the forum for discussion, so that we might be able to find a compromise and then not have to go back and change it again.* Transparency is good for this situation.
Oh, no. I'm not saying anything about the rules being changed. I'm just asking if there could be a notice on the front page when it does fully take place to help ease any confusion.

Beyond that, I'm happy with the direction the change is going.
User avatar
Claire Gallows
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Eternal Light

Posts: 1605
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:03 pm
Location: Dunmovin (Outside of Rhydin City), Underwood (New Haven), or Caelum Training Center

Post by Claire Gallows »

DUEL Gabby wrote:
*This is why we are throwing it onto the forum for discussion, so that we might be able to find a compromise and then not have to go back and change it again.* Transparency is good for this situation.
<3 I like dis.
User avatar
Spell
Expert Adventurer
Expert Adventurer
Cult of Personality

Posts: 932
Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:16 am

Post by Spell »

Kalamere wrote:The 13 week ruling wasn't so much a rule change as it was a rule clarification. As Queen wrote, the initial version of the rule was vague
Queen wrote:
the rule wrote:* You are required to duel -ONCE- every cycle to continue to gain these rights.
That is how the rule previously read which could be interpreted two ways: once in a cycle's length (aka x weeks) or once *per* cycle meaning if you get a duel in Week 12 of this cycle, starting Week 1 of the next you have not met your requirements for Challenge Rights. This is no doubt why the change was made and I think it makes perfect sense, less questions.
Clearing up an obvious ambiguity, even if that involves a moderate reworking to make the most sense, isn't the same as a new rule and by necessity should be handled differently than a sweeping change like the October rules patch. In essence, it needed to be done "instantly" because it was a needed clarification.
The rule change, IMO because I helped put it forward, was *supposed* to be like DoM's currently is. Which is that you only need to duel once a cycle to stay active, and to stay active on the standings meant you continued to gain your challenge rights per cycle.

An example being...

Duelist duels 1 duel in Week 1 of Fall Cycle. They gain their challenge rights throughout Fall Cycle *and* Winter Cycle. Thought hey are required to get ANOTHER duel in Winter cycle should they wish to continue to stay active on the standings, this duel duel could be done at latest during week 13 of Winter -- then this duel would not only keep them active on the standings, but would also continue the activity needed to gain challenge rights in Spring cycle.

It's was supposed to be like how DoM Title Holders are able to Duel week 1 of one cycle, then not have to duel again until week 8 of the following cycle to keep their "One duel per cycle" clause.

It seems to have struck up confusion though, but the rule was meant to be like that. As is seen by Myria Grazianos challenge this winter cycle after her last duel was gained during the fall cycle of week 12; her challenge was issued during week 1 of the Winter cycle.

So, the rule as it was before the 13 week one, was basically the proposed Pay it forward plan that was posted at the start of this thread. Though it must have fallen under confusion with wording...

Either way, the two month rule cracks down on the easiness of the pay it forward style which the 13 day rule fixed. It just means there should, in theory, be more duels from people who want titles. Unless they throw out two challenges in the time after one duel is done. I like it better than the pay it forward method. Kalamere's one month doesn't even seem that bad either, but the two month seems a good compromise.
Last edited by Spell on Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
DUEL Gabby
RoH Official
RoH Official
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:19 pm

Post by DUEL Gabby »

Spell wrote: Oh, no. I'm not saying anything about the rules being changed. I'm just asking if there could be a notice on the front page when it does fully take place to help ease any confusion.

Beyond that, I'm happy with the direction the change is going.
I don't see any reason why that can't be done. And thanks for clarifying that.
Claire Farron wrote:
DUEL Gabby wrote:
*This is why we are throwing it onto the forum for discussion, so that we might be able to find a compromise and then not have to go back and change it again.* Transparency is good for this situation.
<3 I like dis.
:)
Image
User avatar
Napoleon Bonarat
Seasoned Adventurer
Seasoned Adventurer
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Dread Ship Lollipop

Post by Napoleon Bonarat »

Also post a link to the discussion/clarifications on the standings. People may not read the forums, but if they care about their rank or challenge eligibility, they probably keep up with the standings.

And while it's great to have sticky threads, the most important place for the rules updates should be on the rules themselves, with a change log to show what was updated on what date. I shouldn't have to check the rules and various sticky threads to see what's the most current policy.
Napoleon Bonarat
PiRATes From Heck | Champions of Mythos | Badside Brawlers | CrushBob
User avatar
DUEL Gabby
RoH Official
RoH Official
Posts: 190
Joined: Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:19 pm

Post by DUEL Gabby »

Napoleon Bonarat wrote:Also post a link to the discussion/clarifications on the standings. People may not read the forums, but if they care about their rank or challenge eligibility, they probably keep up with the standings.
I think a link on the standings is a good idea.
Napoleon Bonarat wrote:And while it's great to have sticky threads, the most important place for the rules updates should be on the rules themselves, with a change log to show what was updated on what date. I shouldn't have to check the rules and various sticky threads to see what's the most current policy.
We've been working on getting the rules rewritten to put into the folder on the OOC forum with all changes included. From there we will apply it to the rules page on the standings.
Image
User avatar
Napoleon Bonarat
Seasoned Adventurer
Seasoned Adventurer
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Dread Ship Lollipop

Post by Napoleon Bonarat »

::thumbs up::
User avatar
Sabine
Seasoned Adventurer
Seasoned Adventurer
Posts: 318
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:55 pm
Location: 3 Battle Park Lane Rhydin
Contact:

Post by Sabine »

I don't really have much to add. I'm mostly posting because I saw G (I think on page 1) say that anyone can chip in.


I think I am of similar mindset to Jewell.

If you want a title, then be here, be present. Duel. Frankly, I think 13 weeks, 2 months, any lengths of time that have been discussed are more than appropriate.

Was that even the point of the thread? I had an answer but by page 3 things started to evolve and I forgot my point. :lol:
“We spoke eternal things that cannot die.” -Charles Baudelaire, from The Balcony; Fleurs du Mal (tr. by Roy Campbell), 1857
Locked

Return to “Duel of Swords (OOC)”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest