Regarding the Tuesday DoM and DoF Combo Night

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Napoleon Bonarat
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Post by Napoleon Bonarat »

Scarlet Knight wrote:Maybe a few kickstarter promotions can begin playing into DoM's resuscitation like Tuesday Night Loss Forgiveness, where maybe if you clock in 3 DoM fights you can have a loss expunged on the night? There are a lot of ways to try and experiment with it. Maybe if you clock a DoF fight and a DoM fight on consecutive Tuesday shifts you can be eligible for a spirit gem.
I'm always a fan of thinking outside the box for stuff like this. Anything that can get rid of losses or count as wins (such as wins in a tourney) I love.

I know I'd be a little jealous if say I saw two people dueling in an anti-gravity chamber for magic :D
There's an antigrav ring in SEB that I heard about too late that night. I can't wait for the next SEB night because I think Napoleon fist fighting in an antigrav ring would be hilarious. In any of the sports really, I can see something like Matrix (the movie) moves going on. oo... Matrix matrix...

Another potential ring? The Dread Ship Lollipop off the coast!
:)
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Post by Lem DeAngelo »

G wrote:
Jake wrote:
Kalamere wrote:I 'd also note that the Wednesday merge is a bust and not helping DoM in the slightest. June wasn't too bad, but the 5 Wednesdays in July saw a grand total of 3 DoM duels fought.

One thing I might suggest is to try a different experiment. Rather than merge the least popular sport with the most popular sport, perhaps try Magic and Swords together. Scrap the Wed. night merge (or not, probably doesn't make a difference) and add the DoM option to Saturday night DoS.
A good suggestion! Thanks Kal.
Thursdays would be the best day for this, unless someone is willing to help out with magic on Saturdays. I don't think the callers there have the experience needed to call magic.

I don't really want to pull the Saturday Night off of the RDI though, so that would be the only thing.

That said, I am willing to do a combo night.
I really appreciate the offer, G. Pros and cons to both Thursday and Saturday in my opinion. Saturday allows more exposure on RDI, but loses the caller's tool. The caller's tool isn't a perfect solution for DoM duels because it doesn't score the foci modifiers. The extra 0.5 has to be manually input in the tool. The DZ round checker does score foci per round, so it can be helpful. DoM duels do require a little memorization to call due to the foci, so it can take a while to be comfortable calling matches.

If another combo night is added, I'm thinking a little PR and special events may help to promote it. I didn't do anything to promote the DoF Wednesday combo, so the lack of awareness could be a contributing factor for the lack of DoM Wednesday duels this summer. I just mentioned to Apple last night that we could try a "For the Win Wednesday" where losses don't count to try and promote the Wednesday combo shift.

I'm happy whenever I see any new shift (Saturday afternoon & Wednesday Outback) log a DoM duel, event if it's just 1. That's 1 more that we probably wouldn't have had without the extra shift.
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Post by Lem DeAngelo »

Shadowlord wrote:I'd had this thought! Call the night Swords and Sorcery!
I like it!
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Post by G »

Lem DeAngelo wrote:
G wrote:Thursdays would be the best day for this, unless someone is willing to help out with magic on Saturdays. I don't think the callers there have the experience needed to call magic.

I don't really want to pull the Saturday Night off of the RDI though, so that would be the only thing.

That said, I am willing to do a combo night.
I really appreciate the offer, G. Pros and cons to both Thursday and Saturday in my opinion. Saturday allows more exposure on RDI, but loses the caller's tool. The caller's tool isn't a perfect solution for DoM duels because it doesn't score the foci modifiers. The extra 0.5 has to be manually input in the tool. The DZ round checker does score foci per round, so it can be helpful. DoM duels do require a little memorization to call due to the foci, so it can take a while to be comfortable calling matches.

If another combo night is added, I'm thinking a little PR and special events may help to promote it. I didn't do anything to promote the DoF Wednesday combo, so the lack of awareness could be a contributing factor for the lack of DoM Wednesday duels this summer. I just mentioned to Apple last night that we could try a "For the Win Wednesday" where losses don't count to try and promote the Wednesday combo shift.

I'm happy whenever I see any new shift (Saturday afternoon & Wednesday Outback) log a DoM duel, event if it's just 1. That's 1 more that we probably wouldn't have had without the extra shift.
Kinda why with Saturday, I think it would be needed to have an experienced DoM person in there to help. Dris and Peaches help call on Saturdays now, and I don't believe either of them are experienced enough with DoM to call without the tool. Dris I know for sure has said it. Not sure about Peaches.

Saturday would be great for the exposure, that's the truth. Just a matter of being comfortable actually calling that style.
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Post by Claire Gallows »

G wrote:
Lem DeAngelo wrote:
G wrote:Thursdays would be the best day for this, unless someone is willing to help out with magic on Saturdays. I don't think the callers there have the experience needed to call magic.

I don't really want to pull the Saturday Night off of the RDI though, so that would be the only thing.

That said, I am willing to do a combo night.
I really appreciate the offer, G. Pros and cons to both Thursday and Saturday in my opinion. Saturday allows more exposure on RDI, but loses the caller's tool. The caller's tool isn't a perfect solution for DoM duels because it doesn't score the foci modifiers. The extra 0.5 has to be manually input in the tool. The DZ round checker does score foci per round, so it can be helpful. DoM duels do require a little memorization to call due to the foci, so it can take a while to be comfortable calling matches.

If another combo night is added, I'm thinking a little PR and special events may help to promote it. I didn't do anything to promote the DoF Wednesday combo, so the lack of awareness could be a contributing factor for the lack of DoM Wednesday duels this summer. I just mentioned to Apple last night that we could try a "For the Win Wednesday" where losses don't count to try and promote the Wednesday combo shift.

I'm happy whenever I see any new shift (Saturday afternoon & Wednesday Outback) log a DoM duel, event if it's just 1. That's 1 more that we probably wouldn't have had without the extra shift.
Kinda why with Saturday, I think it would be needed to have an experienced DoM person in there to help. Dris and Peaches help call on Saturdays now, and I don't believe either of them are experienced enough with DoM to call without the tool. Dris I know for sure has said it. Not sure about Peaches.

Saturday would be great for the exposure, that's the truth. Just a matter of being comfortable actually calling that style.
If it's something they're interested in doing/learning, I'd be willing to sit in on Saturdays help them out until they're comfortable with it.
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Post by JewellRavenlock »

Kalamere wrote:Alternatively, bribe Peaches into some sort of DoM only calling. She seems to have somehow made Monday nights the biggest dueling nights we have now.
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Post by Scarlet Knight »

As it looks now I am able to help out Saturday nights with Magic calling. Either helping others or simply accepting all magic queues.
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Post by Peaches »

Come on, now. You all know I will call just about anything for the sake of being part of the community. I don't mind at all learning to call for DoM.
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Post by Scarlet Knight »

Peaches wrote:Come on, now. You all know I will call just about anything for the sake of being part of the community. I don't mind at all learning to call for DoM.
Don't you throw my attempts at more Peaches time under the bus so easily! :D
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Post by G »

I'll talk to Lem and Matt, and see what we want to do overall. Let's not make this a "Yes this is going to happen" right off the bat.

Thank you for your offers! We'll see what we can come up with.
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Post by LadyAjaBird »

If there were to be a combo night on Saturdays with Swords and Magic. I would be willing to call for that too.
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Post by JewellRavenlock »

LadyAjaBird wrote:If there were to be a combo night on Saturdays with Swords and Magic. I would be willing to call for that too.
I'm a little confused. Combo nights with DoF/DoM are bad but combo nights with DoM/DoS are okay?
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Post by PrlUnicorn »

My goodness! In the last few hours, people got more verbose than I do!

First of all, I love the idea of Swords and Sorcery!
Lem DeAngelo wrote: 5) Why did we move to RoH? The caller's tool is easier for calling multiple duels at once. Assumed we'd have more duels with a combo shift.
and
Lem DeAngelo wrote: I really appreciate the offer, G. Pros and cons to both Thursday and Saturday in my opinion. Saturday allows more exposure on RDI, but loses the caller's tool. The caller's tool isn't a perfect solution for DoM duels because it doesn't score the foci modifiers. The extra 0.5 has to be manually input in the tool. The DZ round checker does score foci per round, so it can be helpful. DoM duels do require a little memorization to call due to the foci, so it can take a while to be comfortable calling matches.

Is it really easier to call Magic duels with the tool when Focus results need to be calculated by hand in some way? ( Focused moves unlike fancies and feints don't have a spiffy check box.) One of the reasons I'm asking is the last time I had a character dueling magic, the caller on duty expressed a discomfort and unfamiliarity with the Magic matrix. Someone else came in to call. I'm sympathetic to the first caller and grateful to the second. If the calling tool had the focus markers included, just about any caller should be able to plug the info in and run with it. ( And, yes, I know, the coder is no longer available to make that change.) If one has to stop what they are doing to calculate a score by hand anyway, is it truly easier in the long run?

Does Arbiter (sp?) allow for the Focused moves? If so, would it be a viable option for DoM callers instead of the calling tool?

Lem DeAngelo wrote: I'm not sure about the mellow of magic? Magic being mellow is up to the player. When Lem duels magic, he is typically throwing fire and attempting to scorch the earth. Lem is meant to be a gentle soul outside the ring, but ready to destroy when he enters the ring.
I would call it a more cerebral ( magical talents tend to require mental focus) or, sometimes, more elegant form of combat, but when we have characters, including children, dropping boulders from the sky and getting into their opponents' heads to confound them, I think we need a better word than mellow to describe it. Perhaps, Aja means the setting of Twilight Isle, in and of itself, is a mellow/peaceful environment?
Harris wrote: I think the concern here is that the only night Twilight Island is open appears to be moving toward being a DoF night. That DoM is being marginalized in favor of DoF. The numbers don't really lie about that. I think it's worrisome for DoM if the duels for the sport continue to trend downward, while DoF trends upward. People who potentially enjoy DoM and would like to show up to that setting and strictly enjoy DoM don't have that option. The other two sports do. Mondays for DoF in the Outback (since Wednesday is also a joint night) and Thursday/Saturday for DoS in the Arena.

The questions become, is that a viable complaint? Is there a large contingent of people, enough to be detrimental to the sport if they don't show up, that want the Isle to remain DoM only on Tuesdays? If this was happening with either of the other sports would it be so easily shrugged aside?
Harris, you summed this up in a nutshell. People who want to enjoy only DoS duels can have them on Thursday and Saturday. Only DoF - Outback on Mondays, but Twilight Isle does not presently have only DoM duels. Much like some people think of the RoH as the redheaded stepchild of the RDI, the DoM is sometimes relegated to last in line.
Jake wrote: If it's about the setting...I don't see how the fact that other sports being played in the same venue is a problem. Does it fit the genre of the setting? Maybe not. Neither does DoF in Star's End, but that seems to be popular enough that Kheldar wants to do it on a recurring basis.
When I was hosting SEB back on AOL, they had an area that was sometimes set aside for boxing matches. Toby would probably have a fresher memory on that than I do. Pretty sure it was the area marked as the dance floor. Why wouldn't DoF fit into a place where bar brawls have been commonplace?

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Scarlet Knight wrote: I feel like a part of the opposing view (I don't want to put words in anyone's mouths, so please just correct me If I'm wrong) to the combo nights are the idea of exclusivity. Magic having its own shift certainly kept the setting rooted in the Isle's lore and premise. Maybe some people can help bring back the mystique of magic dueling by creating some new innovative rings that might just have a few heads turning.

I know I'd be a little jealous if say I saw two people dueling in an anti-gravity chamber for magic :D . Well I hope some of this helped. It's nice to see this thread really bumping with positive responses.

-- Quick Edit: Another potential ring? The Dread Ship Lollipop off the coast!
Lily used/uses a few specialty rings for magic that were pretty popular: the clubhouse, a pool, and I forget what she called it but it was like dueling in some part of outer space. I'm not suggesting using her creations without her say so, but it is a good example of what can be done.

Maybe a ring that require duelists be influenced by a levitation spell while inside it would fit more with Twilight Isle than a Zero-G one?

The image of cookies or other food floating about a ring while Nappy's dueling in Zero G of some kind just cracks me up! I can see him snagging snacks while dueling!

I can't really picture the Dread Ship Lollipop as a single ring, but as a place to duel, yes! That was done a while back and was a night filled with fun! The Isle has a lagoon and a ring crafted to look like a ship could work!

Lastly, the Dris and Peaches combo is a fun one! :)
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Post by Peaches »

In the question about Arbiter that was posed by Collie, I think i can answer --

When I was being trained to be a caller, Arbiter was pointed out to me. I downloaded it and swear by it. I enjoy it more than the tool on RoH and sometimes still use it with the tool. It does calculate Focus where as the tool on RoH is kind of weird with it. I remember because I was told I would have to manually do it myself with the tool, rather than with Arbiter that does it for me.

In other words; I basically would just use Arbiter to call for DoM all the time anyways. :D
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Post by Lem DeAngelo »

PrlUnicorn wrote:Is it really easier to call Magic duels with the tool when Focus results need to be calculated by hand in some way? ( Focused moves unlike fancies and feints don't have a spiffy check box.) One of the reasons I'm asking is the last time I had a character dueling magic, the caller on duty expressed a discomfort and unfamiliarity with the Magic matrix. Someone else came in to call. I'm sympathetic to the first caller and grateful to the second. If the calling tool had the focus markers included, just about any caller should be able to plug the info in and run with it. ( And, yes, I know, the coder is no longer available to make that change.) If one has to stop what they are doing to calculate a score by hand anyway, is it truly easier in the long run?
I guess it's an opinion of each caller, but I know it's much easier for me to call 4 duels with 1 caller's tool on screen as opposed to 8 different IMs. Also, the tool only requires an edit when a foci is successful. So there's a small amount of hand work required. Not using a tool at all is 100% hand work. Changing the score for a successful foci can be about 10%-20% hand work depending on how many foci actually score.

Arbiter still works and does track foci scores. It hasn't had an update in years. I recall some people would often have trouble getting the program to work on their OS though. I think that's the only problem I recall for calling regular duels. There were some megacast foci issues, but no issues with regular duels.
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