Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

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Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Goldglo » Mon Nov 19, 2018 8:20 pm

On the heels of the vastly successful Great Gobble Tournament (thanks, Empress! And congratulations again to Juniper and Penny!), the DoF staff have continued discussing changes to the traditional ranking system.

Taking into consideration feedback from both newcomers and veterans of the sport, we’re introducing new ranking rules to DoF on a trial basis. We think you’ll find the new system to be an improvement as it addresses the disappointment that comes with attaining rank only to lose it after a bad night or two of dueling.

The crux of this proposed system, which we’re calling the Maintain Rank System, is that once you gain a rank, you cannot lose the rank or its benefits (i.e. modifiers). This system also maintains a Wins-over-Losses flavor within a specific rank.

Rank-specific details are below but in summary, we’re adopting a full no-loss posture for the Glass rank. Jade can be one of the most difficult ranks to attain while new players are learning the game; we want to help those players rank up more quickly and attain those first two modifiers. In essence, as a Glass, no matter how many times you lose, it’ll only take 2 wins to rank up to Jade and once there, you can’t fall below the Jade rank.

For the remaining ranks, a threshold/plateau system is in place. Once you earn Jade, Ruby, Sapphire or Emerald, you’ll never lose the rank even if you find yourself in the midst of a downward spiral. If you’re a 7-1 Ruby (6 WoL) and go 0-3 during one week, you will no longer drop back to Jade with a 7-4 record (3 WoL). Instead, the threshold will kick in and you’ll remain at Ruby with a record of 5 wins. Details/specifics for each rank are provided below.

Beginning this week, the Duel of Fists will run under this system for the remainder of the current cycle and for the first cycle of 2019 (January-March). At that time, we'll evaluate to see whether the system was successful and whether you, the players, wish to keep it in place or if alternatives are preferred.

Questions, comments, feedback are welcome. We’re excited about this change and encourage each of you to have fun punching, kicking, bruising and playing with each other’s characters in the coming weeks!

Maintain Rank System

Glass Rank (0-1 WoL): No-loss applies; losses will not count against the dueler’s record

Jade Rank (2-4 WoL): Upon reaching the Jade rank, losses that would put the dueler’s record below 2 WoL will not count. If a Jade-ranked dueler reaches the 4 WoL mark and loses their next three duels, their record will reflect 2 overall wins and they will retain the Jade rank

Ruby Rank (5-9 WoL): Upon reaching the Ruby rank, losses that would put the dueler’s record below 5 WoL will not count. If a Ruby-ranked dueler reaches the 9 WoL mark and loses their next six duels, their record will reflect 5 overall wins and they will retain the Ruby rank

Sapphire Rank (10-14 WoL): Upon reaching the Sapphire rank, losses that would put the dueler’s record below 10 WoL will not count. If a Sapphire-ranked dueler reaches the 14 WoL mark and loses their next ten duels, their record will reflect 10 overall wins and they will retain the Sapphire rank

Emerald Rank (15+ WoL): Upon reaching the Emerald rank, losses that would put the dueler’s record below 15 WoL will not count. If a dueler reaches the 15 WoL mark, they will remain ranked at Emerald and cannot fall below that rank

Thank you,

Matt (on behalf of the entire DoF staff)
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Hope » Thu Jun 27, 2019 2:33 am

Seeing as how it's had some time to be implemented I'm curious to know what people think of this format. I think it's an interesting take allowing you the safety of knowing once you earn/unlock more mods as you rank up you don't have to worry about experimenting as you duel with them. I'm curious to know if we've been tracking the amount of regulation duels and if there were goal posts with the changes. How do people trying to climb in DoF feel about them? How does climbing in DoF compare to the other two sports? I haven't tried to climb in any sport in years so I'm not really the best to discuss this and would love to hear how new(er) players feel about this.
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Goldglo » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:36 pm

Hi DoF participants!

Seconding Hope's questions, we're very interested in feedback regarding the Maintain Rank System (either here, or if you're more comfortable, in a PM or Discord DM - whatever works best for you)!

Thank you,

--Matt
"If you are thinking a year from now, sow seed. If you are thinking ten years from now, plant a tree. If you are thinking one-hundred years from now, educate the people."

--Kuan Tzu, 5'th century Chinese poet
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Bailey Raptis » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:17 pm

For me personally, it hasn't really changed my interest level in attempting to rank any of my characters up (Bailey, Phil, Jay) or bring back the one character I got up to Emerald ages ago (Locke). Some of that is my personal preference for the sports that I duel on with my most active character (Bailey), and some of that is I just don't see the enthusiasm or numbers of people active in Fists that I do in Swords or Magic. My personal preference is for Swords or Magic, but when I do find myself in a Fists mood, it's hard to find others in the same mood.
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Michelle Montoya » Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:29 pm

It does feel more difficult to 'climb' in DoF and harder to get participation for two main reasons:

1. You don't maintain rank until you've hit rank on the standings. So you need to win during the week, get your WoL, then sit tight until the rankings change. At least, that is my understanding of the system. So once someone gets their WoL they stop duelling fists so they can rank up.

2. There is less interest in DoF than the other two sports. I'm not sure if that's because it's the only one with a no-loss option or if others just don't enjoy the matrix as much.


Things that have made me more inclined to duel in fists:

1. Mentorship from Hope. Not just IC. Hope helped me understand a lot about the fists matrix, how feints work, and the kind of opportunities the fists matrix has. It has made it a more enjoyable sport for me and helped clarify a lot of misunderstandings.

2. Having the chance to challenge Eden for the Opal as Runt. It opened up a lot of opportunities for me, both RP wise and in the duels. I'm less concerned about duelling Emeralds with Runt and seeing how much fun I can have with the Opals from a SL perspective gives me further incentive to make Emerald.

When I first started the duels over fifteen years ago I hardly ever did fists because it was so hard to rank-up, especially against higher level duelists. I think the maintain-rank system is a huge step forward. I like that it offers a challenge while still providing a safety net. I also think that events such as the No Loss Night are helpful, I wasn't able to attend the No Loss Night but I hear that it went very well. I'm not sure what more can be done to increase participation.
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Gloria Blaze » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:44 am

Since returning I think the biggest factor is being able to duel any discipline in any night. Back we I left you had to choose which room to be in and for me I was often unavailable during one of the nights. Then if their was a tournament in another sport another night it was harder to get duels in. This ability to duel any on any night helps. However, I always found fists harder to rank up and had the least number of characters at Emerald than the comparative in other sports.
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Bailey Raptis » Thu Jul 04, 2019 1:07 pm

Michelle Montoya wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:29 pm
It does feel more difficult to 'climb' in DoF and harder to get participation for two main reasons:

1. You don't maintain rank until you've hit rank on the standings. So you need to win during the week, get your WoL, then sit tight until the rankings change. At least, that is my understanding of the system. So once someone gets their WoL they stop duelling fists so they can rank up.
I don't have any quantitative evidence for this, but I do suspect that this has something of a drag on Fists participation versus Magic or Swords. I know back in the day, I did this all the time when I was ranking characters up at Swords pre-lossless. If I was one win away from that next rank, and I got that win, that was it for me and dueling for the night, but now, there's less of a worry about a loss erasing your gains from an evening of dueling in Swords and Magic. It becomes a matter of choice on whether or not people want to wait until the standings update to gain that new rank's benefit.
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Alasdair Galloway » Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:58 pm

For me, I think it's difficult to rank up because there isn't much interest in fists, and because if I were to actively look for duels, I would likely be fighting the same small pool of people and/or people who are much more experienced and a higher rank who would likely beat me more than I beat them. So either way it doesn't sound like fun, and I doubt I'd be able to advance very quickly, if at all.

It's nice that I won't lose the rank I'm at, but I think with such a small community, and even fewer actively dueling in fists, but I feel like the system discourages duels and makes people want to stop for the week once they've reached enough WoL to rank up.

For instance, if I wanted to bring a new character around and after a week I'm 2-0, then the next week I start on a Monday, and go 3-0 so I have a total of 5 WoL, then I would be more apt to not duel the rest of the week so that way I know I won't lose that rank. So that's actually a disincentive to duel. People need an incentive to duel, not something to discourage them from it.
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by JewellRavenlock » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:41 pm

DoF staff appreciate the feedback! I want to let you know that you all have been heard and we are working on things. When it's more presentable, we'll share some ideas 😁
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Michelle Montoya » Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:36 pm

So I was giving this some more thought, and I think there's another key difference between Magic/Swords and Fists. Story-based events and/or league component. For example, Magic did the Tower of Light and Dark - an although it wasn't perfect it added a community and league incentive to duel in magic along with story prompts/story benefits. In Swords we have the Dueling Houses which lead to in-game benefits. And now Magic and Swords have combined with the Swords and Sorcery events. And that's only in the past six months since I've been back here.

Fists, Magic and Swords all have tournaments - one for lower levels and one for higher ranks. However, Swords and Magic seem to go the extra mile to incentivize players and/or add an additional dynamic. I'd love to see something like that in Fists.
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Goldglo » Tue Aug 13, 2019 1:41 pm

Michelle Montoya wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:36 pm
Fists, Magic and Swords all have tournaments - one for lower levels and one for higher ranks. However, Swords and Magic seem to go the extra mile to incentivize players and/or add an additional dynamic. I'd love to see something like that in Fists.
To everyone who's replied to this thread so far, I thank you.

Kheld, Jewell and I working on something (actually, a lot of somethings) akin to what Michelle's mentioned, I promise! We're still in the early brainstorming phase and are kicking around several ideas; I can't tell you yet what the final result will be (we don't yet know ourselves), but we've set a timeline and are on the path to bringing twists and changes to DoF which I readily admit are long overdue.

Thank you all for your patience; hold out just a bit longer. :)

--Matt
"If you are thinking a year from now, sow seed. If you are thinking ten years from now, plant a tree. If you are thinking one-hundred years from now, educate the people."

--Kuan Tzu, 5'th century Chinese poet
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Re: Duel of Fists - New Ranking System (Trial Run)

Post by Goldglo » Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:05 am

In accordance with this post, DoF is shuttering the "Maintain Rank" system and transitioning to a Lossless system as of October 1, 2019.

--Matt
"If you are thinking a year from now, sow seed. If you are thinking ten years from now, plant a tree. If you are thinking one-hundred years from now, educate the people."

--Kuan Tzu, 5'th century Chinese poet
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