Arena Factions

[Sylus Kurgen]

Just making sure I've read everything correctly.

- It's looking like the Morale Bonus mod can be written out of the proposal.

-Translate the Morale bonus into something passive and group based like a) choosing a theme night for a given week. b)seeding in tournaments. c) Faction vs Faction brawl, perhaps with the Baronial match taking more center stage. Baron vs Baron in solo combat while their factions fight around them. Not sure, cool imagery.

-Faction forms, they can start gaining benefits at the start of the next cycle. However if they're disbanded they have to wait a cycle to reform that specific group.

-Disbanding the faction is an organic policing system. Anyone can take action in it. No shaming or bullying involved.

What have I missed?

[Rakeesh]

@Kalamere -- yeah, your interface is far more efficient than my suggestion. Looks great! I definitely think that there should be a timer on declarations to avoid shadiness. Probably a week, yeah?

And your suggestion about keeping "theme night" to Thursday makes sense to not butt into Fight Nights, though it does become a little restrictive for folks who simply cannot be available on Thursdays. It might be worth chatting about with the other admins -- would a theme night chosen by DoS Houses on a variable Thursday-Sunday be a negative thing for DoM and DoF? I'm not sure that it would be.

As far as following a District vs following a person goes ... well, if all incentives are kept to a weekly basis and tracking declarations is using your automated system, absolutely. I actually prefer all incentives to be kept to a weekly basis (rather than an entire cycle), as I think that reduces the pressure for TDL/IFL/Hydra/etc like competition over a long period of time (good for burn out).

BUT, if we were to use cycle-long result tracking for incentives, then I think it'd need to be District based -- it would be pretty crushing to a House/team if all of their points for an entire cycle could be basically thrown out (or at least frozen in progress) just because their Baron lost the title. That said, still, weekly incentives > cycle longs.

@Spell -- I appreciate your position on "Don't like it? Challenge." But only to a point. I do think that people should feel comfortable talking to their friends and teammates when their friends and teammates' behavior makes them uncomfortable. "Don't like it? Challenge <ME>." is also an easy excuse one could make to justify their own bad behavior, which is why I find it lacking as a sole methodology of policing abuse.

@Sylus

- Reading back ... it sort of seems like the Morale Bonus is pretty widely supported actually?

- Theme night's still good. No reason not to do both. They serve different functions.

- Faction Wars could be a fun event, but demands a lot of thought to figure out the logistics so that it finishes in one/two nights and is balanced and is fun. It's an entire other thread, really!

- "Disbanding the faction is an organic policing system" ... I don't understand what that means.

- What are your thoughts on the Squire Tournament suggestion? In my mind, through all of the opinions and voices, one notion that we don't want to forget about was this original idea that DoS' politics are its most unique element and deserve more fun, interesting interactions.

Squire Tournament. To recap, as I don't think anyone else really replied to this concept.

- Squires meet up once a cycle to duel in the Squire tournament, representing the Barons/Overlord (assuming we get an OL Squire too). If the Baron and at least two other supporters of the Baron are present (encouraging large event turn out, politics, team play, activity) they are able to take part in the tournament.

- The winning Squire receives an intercession free Baronial challenge. +1 politics.

Seems like an easy way to increase the political intrigue and interactions, increase the meaningfulness of being a Squire, and encourage some easy, regular team play.

[Sabine]

Faction v Faction = how to disband a faction?

Mebe? Would that work?

Like say you want to disband a faction, you challenge them. You beat them and they break up for the remainder of the cycle?

I don't know if it fits in with how the factions are to work but tossing it out there.

[Hope]

Faction v Faction = how to disband a faction?

That's along the lines I was thinking. Factions could have rivalries where maybe a Baron and their entourage strolls up on another Faction while they control the setting and basically walk in like a dojo-breaking and throw down the challenge, loser disbands their faction.

Alternatively I think you could also treat it where two Factions are on good terms and have "friendly"'s if you will with exhibition matches in Regulation where people just pair up and duel one another.

[Sabine]

Faction v Faction = how to disband a faction?

That's along the lines I was thinking. Factions could have rivalries where maybe a Baron and their entourage strolls up on another Faction while they control the setting and basically walk in like a dojo-breaking and throw down the challenge, loser disbands their faction.

Alternatively I think you could also treat it where two Factions are on good terms and have "friendly"'s if you will with exhibition matches in Regulation where people just pair up and duel one another.

Yiiis

I have this whole West Side Story thing in my head and it makes me giggle every time I think of it.

[Spell]

Since this hasn't been bumped for a while...

Factions idea.

- No Mods
- Factions are purely IC. Let them grow and change organically. Maybe do as Kalamere suggested and offer things like format for a WLT, or making a theme night for Thursdays, etc.
- Mercenary Faction? Broken faction? They choose to fight for a sellsword sort of faction of Non-title holder ranks and focus on beating Baron factions for no reason other than to say they did? No special prizes other than to boast if they overcome all other teams in the cycle? ( So no WLT style choices or anything else special ). When a faction break happens the fallen faction auto-join this coven/faction in the hopes of avenging their fallen baron? Isle of Misfit Toys style. Also having a faction like this could show how many factions were broken up throughout the cycle to create it. Once the cycle is up they can feel free to leave the broken group and join back to a Baron / Overlord faction.

As a pure RP device this could be very fun. tbh I'd join a Merc / Broken faction instead of a Baron faction just to be competitive for no real gain outside of boasting. Plus it's totally the Hipster thing to do so you aren't part of the, pssh *hairflip* "main" groups.

[Sylus Kurgen]

As a pure RP device this could be very fun. tbh I'd join a Merc / Broken faction instead of a Baron faction just to be competitive for no real gain outside of boasting. Plus it's totally the Hipster thing to do so you aren't part of the, pssh *hairflip* "main" groups.

This in turn could open up the Baronial Manors as Faction HQs.

It's been a little bit since I posted in this topic. Definitely seems like there's a healthy amount of support for this idea. Plus it allows for tons of inclusion to newer/returning folks. Going back through the thread, there were many great ideas and variations on my original proposal.

Overall, I feel that Factions should offer something for everyone, both with ranks on the standings and to players. With that in mind, here's what I've worked up. I'll start in a top-down fashion with benefits for all.

Overlord
Edited to adjust: The Overlord's "Faction" is the combination of Loyal Baron factions. The duelists in limbo from a Faction being broken up fall into a "Lost Legion" classification.

Whatever perks an individual character was enjoying while part of a Baron's faction stays with them when they fall into the Lost Legion classification until the update of the current standings. I have a feeling this particular group will end up being the largest overall hence the short overlap.

Barons
Sr. Baron Faction gets to design a custom dueling ring for the cyclical tournament of their choice. Either Talon, WLT, or something Squire related.

Edited.

Warlords
Senior faction Warlords get to decide on the Theme of a WLT for a cycle and offer additional prizes. Perhaps getting moved up 1 slot in seeding too.

This is subject to public/forum vote and discussion?

Edited.

Grandmasters
Edit to add: Doesn't really need anything

Master at Arms
Edit to Add: Doesn't really need anything

Swordsman, Commoner.
This is a middle ground with some of the discussions outside of this thread. When the Baron or a Warlord of a faction is ICly coaching one of these ranks in the Arena, not the Annex. That person gets 1 mod to use on that night. This opens up all Warlords within a Faction to be a mentor of sorts to any of these two lower ranks at any given time without taking under their specific wing.

Edit to Adjust: This is on a per-duel basis. Baron or Warlord takes notice of a Swordsman/Commoner and makes the offer to give them a few pointers. They'd just have to message the caller on duty before the match, "Hey, I'm coaching [insert name]." Once the duel is over, they can coach another Commoner/Swordsman or continue giving all of their attention to that one duelist. While Squires are the personal students of a Baron, Faction Warlords can be "teachers of the moment" to any of the bottom two lower ranks.

That's, kind of all I have for the moment.

ON top of all this is the RP stuff you've all named off. I'm gong to be insanely busy this week if someone wants to work up a concise outline.

ETA: Still not completely sure this is the right way to go with the idea. There are so many ideas within this thread...it's taking bits and pieces form them all that I'm going for. Take what I posted here, and either add to or adjust and I'll edit them in.

[Spell]

Warlords
Leading faction Warlords gets to decide on the Theme of a WLT for a cycle and offer additional prizes. Perhaps getting moved up 1 slot in seeding too.

I'm confused about this. It's understandable that a Baron gets their own faction as they are the leader of said faction, but I don't see who could be leader of the Warlord faction, unless it's an all for one and one for all sort of deal where they can then hold an yes/no vote in a public thread ( please no polls, straight up public vote where people post a yes or no in their response as polls can be abused ) for WLT ideas. Warlords post their thoughts, other Warlords critique, then they hold a vote? Would any Warlord not signed to any Faction be considered part of the Warlord-only faction?

Lost Legion is a nice name btw.

I also like the Arena and not the Annex being used for a +1 mod boost, since it gives more of single-sport feel to it and promotes more activity in the Arena. To touch on it though, due to confusion. So if the Baron of Battlefield Park or any Warlord under the Faction banner of Battlefield Park is in the Arena, they can choose *one* commoner/swordsman out of the bunch and tell the caller on duty that they will be their mentee for the night? That commoner/swordsman would then get a +1 mod, so long as that Baron/Warlord of Battlefield Park is there throughout the duel?

Will this choice be one Warlord/Baron to one Commoner/Swordsman per Thursday, or will they be able to switch to another Commoner/Swordsman once the duel they are seen as a mentor in is finished?

I also think custom dueling rings / theme nights / etc should be enough of a perk. There's nothing real game breaking about that. And a faction being able to up their seed through hard work sounds fun too if we go by Warlord rankings ( you all are bringing that back I beleive, right? ). The rankings can go hand in hand with factions to see which Warlord/Baron/etc comes out on top. Things on merit alone instead of passing out things like free WoLs and such is nice.

As for GM's and Master At Arms.. They are kinda in the middle when it comes to these things. While they lose the +1 mod perk from commoner/swordsman, they do gain the knowledge they learned while at low ranks, on top of being able to maybe help activity wise to their faction? That way, even without a posted "perk", they are still doing their job to help their faction achieve a goal, so in a way the Baron perk is their perk as well.

[Kalamere]

The Overlord doesn't get a faction of their own, instead those that are from broken factions or those that do not wish to align to one group or another may side with the Overlord at their own wish. I want to call this the Lost Legion.

Doesn’t the Overlord sorta default to having the combined factions of all his/her loyal barons? It’s also almost like saying all these folks have effecting declared themselves loyal to the OL, which many may not want from an IC perspective.

What if the Lost Legion simply didn’t have a figure head?

In conjunction with your notes on Commoner / Swordsman - you could say that any LL warlord may sponsor a LL lower rank for the night.

… Warlord rankings ( you all are bringing that back I beleive, right? ).

Best saved for a different thread, but I had proposed to Sylus that we do this, yes. I’d like to do a slightly modified version of DoF’s ERS, the only change being to institute a minimum 3 qualifying duels for the top bracket. Otherwise it would work the same and, like ERS, the only impact is for the WLT seeding and maybe a little bit of bragging rights.

[Sylus Kurgen]

Warlords
Leading faction Warlords gets to decide on the Theme of a WLT for a cycle and offer additional prizes. Perhaps getting moved up 1 slot in seeding too.

I'm confused about this. It's understandable that a Baron gets their own faction as they are the leader of said faction, but I don't see who could be leader of the Warlord faction, unless it's an all for one and one for all sort of deal where they can then hold an yes/no vote in a public thread ( please no polls, straight up public vote where people post a yes or no in their response as polls can be abused ) for WLT ideas. Warlords post their thoughts, other Warlords critique, then they hold a vote? Would any Warlord not signed to any Faction be considered part of the Warlord-only faction?

There isn't a Warlord-only faction, the idea is that the Warlords that are part of the Sr. baron get to come up with the theme of the WLT. Your other thoughts could be added to this. Sr. Faction WLs propose the theme, post it on the forums, the WLs of the other Factions critique, then they vote?

Though I do like the underlying thought that Warlords, despite faction loyalty remain a Brotherhood unto themselves. Not sure if that's not another idea altogether.

I also like the Arena and not the Annex being used for a +1 mod boost, since it gives more of single-sport feel to it and promotes more activity in the Arena. To touch on it though, due to confusion. So if the Baron of Battlefield Park or any Warlord under the Faction banner of Battlefield Park is in the Arena, they can choose *one* commoner/swordsman out of the bunch and tell the caller on duty that they will be their mentee for the night? That commoner/swordsman would then get a +1 mod, so long as that Baron/Warlord of Battlefield Park is there throughout the duel?

Will this choice be one Warlord/Baron to one Commoner/Swordsman per Thursday, or will they be able to switch to another Commoner/Swordsman once the duel they are seen as a mentor in is finished?

Essentially, yes. Using your example, the Baron of Battlefield Park, or any Warlords under his/her banner can be a "coach of the moment" for any commoner or swordsman. Assuming that person wants the coaching. From an IC standpoint there simply are some characters that don't want someone just rolling up and telling them they're doing it wrong. Looking back, the commoner/swordsman shouldn't have to be within their faction. To me, this makes it in the interest of other WLs, Barons, etc to pay attention to the lower ranks like talent scouts for their faction. Barons too.

Also, the Warlords/Baron of another faction could do this to a Commoner/Swordsman that's all ready joined one of the other factions. Like poaching.

To the second part, yes. One Warlord/Baron to one Commoner/Swordsman. But they're not tied together for the night. Once the duel is over, the Warlord/Baron can coach someone else that might need encouragement, or if the Commoner/Swordsman wants, they can bogart the "coaches" attention the whole night. It's whatever the two come to an agreement on. Squires are akin to personal students to the Barons. This coaching system within Factions is less formal, not really any perks or prestige. It's like being at the boxing gym and one of the regulars offers to give a few pointers. Nothing more.

I also think custom dueling rings / theme nights / etc should be enough of a perk. There's nothing real game breaking about that. And a faction being able to up their seed through hard work sounds fun too if we go by Warlord rankings ( you all are bringing that back I beleive, right? ). The rankings can go hand in hand with factions to see which Warlord/Baron/etc comes out on top. Things on merit alone instead of passing out things like free WoLs and such is nice.

Bold is mine.
This is more the heart of where my idea is coming from. An added game mechanic that is fluid, even organic, in nature that doesn't require much thought to really grasp and understand. Just something that is there, like all of the others tools the DoS Admin have created for everyone to use. If players don't use the tool, it's on them. The Faction idea could bring back the Tag-Team titles into relevancy.

As for GM's and Master At Arms.. They are kinda in the middle when it comes to these things. While they lose the +1 mod perk from commoner/swordsman, they do gain the knowledge they learned while at low ranks, on top of being able to maybe help activity wise to their faction? That way, even without a posted "perk", they are still doing their job to help their faction achieve a goal, so in a way the Baron perk is their perk as well.

I agree, guess they don't really need anything when it can fall under one of the other umbrellas.

[Sylus Kurgen]

The Overlord doesn't get a faction of their own, instead those that are from broken factions or those that do not wish to align to one group or another may side with the Overlord at their own wish. I want to call this the Lost Legion.

Doesn’t the Overlord sorta default to having the combined factions of all his/her loyal barons? It’s also almost like saying all these folks have effecting declared themselves loyal to the OL, which many may not want from an IC perspective.

What if the Lost Legion simply didn’t have a figure head?

In conjunction with your notes on Commoner / Swordsman - you could say that any LL warlord may sponsor a LL lower rank for the night.

Thanks for catching that, Kal. Not entirely sure where my head was going.

Doubling back, the Overlord has under their umbrella the factions of the Loyal Barons.

The "Lost Legion" then could be everyone in limbo as the result of a broken up faction.

[Hope]

Are there guidelines for creation/disbanding them in mind? Will creating a faction simply be a Baron decides on a name and simply submits it? Will they be required to gather some Warlords under them to sign onto a charter for it? Will it need to be approved IC and OOC? Do Factions get disbanded if their Baron goes inactive?

Just some thoughts I'm having. For me personally I find it more difficult to stay involved with the sport when I'm not in a position with influence. I think the Factions will help really get everyone involved and I'm excited to see where they go.

[Spell]

The Overlord doesn't get a faction of their own, instead those that are from broken factions or those that do not wish to align to one group or another may side with the Overlord at their own wish. I want to call this the Lost Legion.

Doesn’t the Overlord sorta default to having the combined factions of all his/her loyal barons? It’s also almost like saying all these folks have effecting declared themselves loyal to the OL, which many may not want from an IC perspective.

What if the Lost Legion simply didn’t have a figure head?

In conjunction with your notes on Commoner / Swordsman - you could say that any LL warlord may sponsor a LL lower rank for the night.

Thanks for catching that, Kal. Not entirely sure where my head was going.

Doubling back, the Overlord has under their umbrella the factions of the Loyal Barons.

The "Lost Legion" then could be everyone in limbo as the result of a broken up faction.

It'd be cool if the Lost Legion simply didn't have a figure head, agreed. It's a little strange that they would be put under the Overlord. Lost Legion being its own group without any political affiliation, or there being any sort of Faction like that - that can compete without having to be under the banner of a title holder, would be great. That way you can join a Warlord Only faction and be able to help a lower rank duelist, while at the same time keeping up your characters position as 'I really hate all these current title holders", or "I dislike politics".. then again, if they dislike a baron and want a non-political themed faction, they can always challenge. So I see the fault in my own idea.

[G]

I like Sell Swords better than Lost Legion. Sell Swords sounds more independent whereas Lost Legion sounds more like an organized troop. Like, More Bronn than Men Without Banners, for you GoT fans out there.

[Spell]

I like Sell Swords better than Lost Legion. Sell Swords sounds more independent whereas Lost Legion sounds more like an organized troop. Like, More Bronn than Men Without Banners, for you GoT fans out there.

gib golden company now