2016 Post-Mortem

[Andrea Anderson]

Last year, I could be counted among those who wondered whether IFL was negatively effecting regulation long after it was over. But the period I'm most interested in seeing the effects of IFL's absence is the period we're in right now---after the holidays and into Madness, which is the post-IFL period I was most concerned about last year. Since that's still on-going, I'm comfortable holding my judgment until the next few months are through.

I'll come back to the convo in a few months and post up the numbers, that way you can see how things went. I'll expand from 2014 Pre-IFL to the end date in a few months just before the Madness tournament. That should give light to some dueling trends.. Though it's obvious that numbers during this slow-down period would have been down a good bit if not for the Terra-Master tournament. That was the only shot in the arm that boosted regulation during this very long lull.

Edit: it just proves that any event can help boost regulation if there's some sort of draw. I held a FireStar-themed event last year without any approval from the Outback or Administration staff. All that was offered was Silver Nobles from my own profile accounts, along with icons over on the Red Dragon Inn side, along with roleplay prompting weapons to be forged for the winner. That event gained a good bit of regulation duels, around 43 duels in a 2 week period of time, and that's only counting DOF regulation duels from those who signed up and not all-sports all together.

What we as a community can do to help boost activity is a simple one, as Harris pointed out. Just run events if you've the interest in it. Ragnarok and Madness are the only two events that actually were fully backed by RoH Coordination staff. Players can do as they wish with the tools they are given outside of that. I know I'd join a tournament if it had a cool RP prize and icons. Eden's own upcoming pet adoption event is going to pull me in on a Saturday where I had planned to spend my time elsewhere. Icons, roleplay prizes, your imagination can make a good draw for any tournament. That's all anyone is truly limited by.

And if you'd like to maybe pass out elemental gems or some sort of other Coordinator backed prize? They listen. Just send a PM and pitch them an idea. Just keep an eye out for past/future events that might have happened a short while before or after your own, since these may sway decision making against an idea if "official" dueling prizes have been passed out/plan to be.

Regulation is first and foremost my primary concern. I'm looking forward to seeing IFL's return, but I also hope that with its return comes the usage of the IFL-room as regulation duel room during fight nights as well. So those who come out and watch the IFL can pick and choose if they'd like to take part in regulation fight night without having to be split between chats.

[Luna Eva]

Gretzky said, "You miss 100% of the shots you don't take". That tends to apply here, as silence isn't likely to engender the positive change you (general) want.

This is a good point, and a good reminder for me. I do still worry about the impact of some of the more negative comments (including my own) on this community. I suppose that's just a necessary risk. Thank you for this and your thoughtful response in general.

I'll come back to the convo in a few months and post up the numbers, that way you can see how things went.

Thanks, that would be great. And I agree with everything in your edit---I was going to comment that although I'd love to see a robust regulation without the necessity of special events to turn out attendance, I don't think we should discount the bump that events like the TerraMaster tourney gave to regulation, since events like that were at least part of the discussion of what we would do to boost regulation in IFL's absence. We don't really need to kick ourselves cause it worked, even if we should also acknowledge there's still a long way to go.

I'm looking forward to seeing IFL's return, but I also hope that with its return comes the usage of the rooms as regulation duel rooms during fight nights as well. So those who come out and watch the IFL can pick and choose if they'd like to take part in regulation fight night without having to be split between chats.

Could not agree with this more.

EDIT:

I know I'd join a tournament if it had a cool RP prize and icons.

As a side note, it appears that user-created icons on RoH are functionally dead. Icons I requested four months ago have still not been received and a recent follow-up email to an Admin, including an inquiry about the future of user-created icons on RoH in general, was not answered.

[Andrea Anderson]

EDIT:

I know I'd join a tournament if it had a cool RP prize and icons.

As a side note, it appears that user-created icons on RoH are functionally dead. Icons I requested four months ago have still not been received and a recent follow-up email to an Admin, including an inquiry about the future of user-created icons on RoH in general, was not answered.

Not to put anyone on blast, I've just started assuming that gaining icons on ROH is a pointless endeavor and it's why I make a note in any tournament I run that the icons granted will be made and given on the RDI side. The RDI side icons don't seem to cause any issue with tournament goers though, and I've also given some winners of past events the choice of having site-money be given to them on RDI or ROH. It's way easier to make the cash to do what you need to do on RDI anyway.. *cough*dragonmarket*cough*.

So whoever wins this next Panther's Claw. If you would rather the 10k go to your RDI account instead of ROH, I'll do it.

[Jake]

RoH is basically doomed.

RoH has been doomed since it moved from AOL to the internet around 2004, 13 years ago. I tell everyone the same thing. However bad you personally think RoH is now, it's been in worse places. The day these threads stop popping up and people stop running events for us to even discuss in the first place is when you know you're in dire straits.

As a comment, I think its doom was written long before it left AOL. Orphaned. (Split from RDI and passed over to a games channel that did nothing for us.) Unable to create/update any of our content. No longer empowered. Jumping to the web was the only thing that gave us a chance.

If we'd stayed on AOL I think we'd have been dead long, long ago as the people drifted off AOL and to the Internet anyway.

...

The rest of your post was insightful and well put. We do have challenges to our survival.

[Harris]

RoH is basically doomed.

RoH has been doomed since it moved from AOL to the internet around 2004, 13 years ago. I tell everyone the same thing. However bad you personally think RoH is now, it's been in worse places. The day these threads stop popping up and people stop running events for us to even discuss in the first place is when you know you're in dire straits.

As a comment, I think its doom was written long before it left AOL. Orphaned. (Split from RDI and passed over to a games channel that did nothing for us.) Unable to create/update any of our content. No longer empowered. Jumping to the web was the only thing that gave us a chance.

If we'd stayed on AOL I think we'd have been dead long, long ago as the people drifted off AOL and to the Internet anyway.

...

The rest of your post was insightful and well put. We do have challenges to our survival.

Truth. I was attempting to strike at the point that people have been saying RoH is doomed for over a decade now, but it's still clearly here.

[Kalamere]

I renew my suggestion that we create a Membership Coordinator position, a person who can lead advertising and outreach efforts without the additional responsibilities of coordinating any individual sport, or administering the site. And, ideally, this person would actually be able to communicate with a responsive administration.

I agree with this wholeheartedly and yet have no idea as to how it happens. There needs to be an outreach program and there need to be several other things done around the site to help make it successful. It cannot, should not, be done by one person - but there needs to be a leader. Someone to coordinate and delegate.

Regulation is first and foremost my primary concern. I'm looking forward to seeing IFL's return, but I also hope that with its return comes the usage of the IFL-room as regulation duel room during fight nights as well. So those who come out and watch the IFL can pick and choose if they'd like to take part in regulation fight night without having to be split between chats.

Sorta towards the end of the last IFL season we came across this revelation and took the step of moving regulation dueling into the IFL Garden. I believe that, with today's numbers, it is a necessary step. That said - should it be revered? Meaning that instead of moving regulation into the Garden, we ditch the garden altogether and require IFL duels to take place in whatever the active dueling room of the evening is? It probably makes more sense that way if players and coordinators are unopposed.

[Andrea Anderson]

Meaning that instead of moving regulation into the Garden, we ditch the garden altogether and require IFL duels to take place in whatever the active dueling room of the evening is? It probably makes more sense that way if players and coordinators are unopposed.

I won't lie. I love the IFL garden as a setting all together and enjoyed calling duels over there when the switch was made toward the later half of the tournament. It was nice to have a little switch up going on for Fight Nights while the normal dueling nights continued at their normal settings. Could it be possible to do both? Promote IFL and its setting on Fight Nights, while then hosting IFL fights in special rings at the Outback, Twilight Isle, and Arena when their solo nights happen? I'd just personally hate seeing the garden go.

[Kalamere]

Could it be possible to do both? Promote IFL and its setting on Fight Nights, while then hosting IFL fights in special rings at the Outback, Twilight Isle, and Arena when their solo nights happen? I'd just personally hate seeing the garden go.

If that's what people would like and the coords are ok with it, sure. I'd be game. The bigger question on my mind is if it would be cool for IFL to intrude on the solo Do/F/M/S nights.

[Claire Gallows]

Could it be possible to do both? Promote IFL and its setting on Fight Nights, while then hosting IFL fights in special rings at the Outback, Twilight Isle, and Arena when their solo nights happen? I'd just personally hate seeing the garden go.

If that's what people would like and the coords are ok with it, sure. I'd be game. The bigger question on my mind is if it would be cool for IFL to intrude on the solo Do/F/M/S nights.

Obviously I can't speak for the others but I'm unopposed to something like that. I really hate splitting crowds to begin with, so why not see if people pick up a regulation match or two while IFL stuff is going, ya know? And then they don't have to go elsewhere to do it.

[Andrea Anderson]

Another question that comes to mind is RDI nights. Will IFL continue to be hosted on ROH or will there be a push to hold matches on Saturday and Monday over on RDI? I assume there might be some who will dislike the idea of going to RDI, but if there's benefits in having everything in one room, if only for those two days...

[Hope]

I've tried to think a bit on events and I think thermometer threads like this could have really prevented some of the hard burnout we had after 2015. I'm a cyclical duelist, regulation duelist and team-based duelist. For me I dueled/captained in a few events spanning from 2015/2016 and I was very relieved to hear that IFL would be going on a one year hiatus in 2016. Not everyone likes regulation dueling or wants to compete in cyclical tournaments and really only want to partake in team-based leagues, or more specifically solely IFL.

I realize now that if I wanted to fully experience and enjoy the events in 2015 I should not have dedicated myself to actively dueling in all of them. Madness has articles, IFL has the booth for character interviews and there are other very cool mechanics we can use to participate without having to duel. These are great ways to be involved but not have to feel stressed out or pressured in events and I recommend everyone to try their hand at them at least once.

A thought I once had was that maybe the team-based leagues should congregate together and determine slots in the year. Alternating two per year and sometimes switching it up. Maybe if there were four major events like Madness, IFL, Ragnarok and Hydra the event runners could alternate times that they would be run. It could be two major events and then the next year the other two could use the same slots. In between with cyclical/regulation events there could be floater events that are less intense but still things people would enjoy.

That's a lot easier to implement on paper than in actuality but with feedback from the community I don't think it's an impossibility by any means. It's possible the demand for some events is just higher than others too but I don't think a season off from any of these would kill anyone's desire to duel in them. I think in my case a year off between the big events is something that would make me a lot more excited to participate in the next time it came around.

As far as burnout within IFL speaking from my point of view I think a large part of it came from my desire to not miss the duels I was a part of. Being on two teams means making it to 8 fights in a week, some times participating in 2 of them. When these are stretched over the week sometimes I'd find myself showing up in the chat a lot more than I had hoped to. An option to help this might be to cut back on some of the days people have to duel on. With scheduling 10 days is a really nice berth but if at all possible the difference between coming out four nights in the week to three or two might help curb the effects.

There was a lot there and I hadn't taken the time to organize my thoughts but that's all I got.

[Harris]

I realize now that if I wanted to fully experience and enjoy the events in 2015 I should not have dedicated myself to actively dueling in all of them. Madness has articles, IFL has the booth for character interviews and there are other very cool mechanics we can use to participate without having to duel. These are great ways to be involved but not have to feel stressed out or pressured in events and I recommend everyone to try their hand at them at least once.

This. Stress is a natural pitfall whenever you compete. If the stress of a competitive environment becomes overwhelming, there are plenty of other ways to be actively engaged without having to duel.

A thought I once had was that maybe the team-based leagues should congregate together and determine slots in the year. Alternating two per year and sometimes switching it up. Maybe if there were four major events like Madness, IFL, Ragnarok and Hydra the event runners could alternate times that they would be run. It could be two major events and then the next year the other two could use the same slots. In between with cyclical/regulation events there could be floater events that are less intense but still things people would enjoy.

That's a lot easier to implement on paper than in actuality but with feedback from the community I don't think it's an impossibility by any means. It's possible the demand for some events is just higher than others too but I don't think a season off from any of these would kill anyone's desire to duel in them. I think in my case a year off between the big events is something that would make me a lot more excited to participate in the next time it came around.

I feel that in 2015 there were a number of players in their first or second year of dueling that incorrectly assumed the event schedule that year would suddenly become the norm. That every year they'd have to wade through 5 major events. 2015 was what I like to consider a blissful anomaly. I cannot personally think of a time in the last decade plus where this community had the volume of large scale, player run events it did in 2015.

There are only two events that became permanent fixtures for any length of time, and those were/are TDL, which ran for roughly 12 seasons and Madness which is coming up on its 11th consecutive year. Virtually every other major event is run on a case by case basis, at the whim of its creator, and frequently only last a year or two like the Tour de RhyDin or Duel Assassin. Because of that it becomes difficult to predict when the next time for anything will be or if it'll have a next time at all, which makes creating any sort of rotation scheme tough and oftentimes unnecessary. Event creators would need to willingly commit a couple of years in advance to projects and I'm not sure many can or would want to for a variety of reasons.

It's also worth noting that whenever you move an event beyond an annual rotation anyone that misses it suffers doubly. If Joe Duelist participates in 2017 Madness, but misses 2018, he only has to wait until 2019. If he participates in IFL in 2017, happens to miss it in 2019, he's waiting until 2021 to get another shot. That seems a bit severe.

[Hope]

The recoil heading into 2016 was pretty strong. I'd quote but it'd basically be the entire post. With Madness being the staple major each year and with it maintaining a solid turnout I think another event of its size is good to compliment it when IFL normally runs. I agree it's not necessary to try and forge a hard-schedule for majors because it looks like there's a natural ebb and flow to when they run. Both IFL and Hydra took some time off and allow the option for other events to run. Whether they do or not is pretty indicative of what state the community is in.

I personally think two majors is a good goal to hit with something minor in the summer slot. I don't think a shortage will ever be a concern since ideas are always bouncing around. Sabine was toying with some ideas, I've toyed with ideas in the past and still am, Jewell is looking at IG etc.

Personally I'd love to see some more Duel of Guns since it wasn't a huge investment but it has so much potential. I would consider it a minor sized event that didn't take much out of you but was a great change of pace.

[Ammy Spiritor]

Been following along quietly. Only hitch I may see or have noticed when tournaments or event duels tend to run on the same night as regular duel nights there is a sizeable conversion of duelists to spectators happening. Nothing wrong with that. Awesome to see people come watch duels, but when a lot of the people spectating are also the duelist normally dueling in regulation duels, it sort of bleeds regulation duels dry on those nights into the special duels going on. Not sure if this is a helpful notation or not, though if there's a lot of team play, more bleed off to root and cheer and not duel during your team mates duel may happen too, whether separate rooms are used or the same room is used.

[Harris]

There's one last salient point I would like to make before this thread winds down to be completely forgotten.

There's a striking difference in board activity between 2015 during IFL and 2016 without IFL. Jewell's Mini Mentee Initiative on the Outback boards is the only standout post in the months of October - December. Comparatively, there were ten or so posts in 2015 created that were *inspired* by IFL and wouldn't have existed without it. Duel of Guns has a folder to itself where all the writing people participated in is collected. While comparing regulation numbers is clearly important, losing sight of the roleplay major events have the ability to inspire and the void not having them creates is worthwhile to make note of as well. When people have a shared focal point it becomes that much easier to collaborate and get the creative juices flowing, since the majority of the community is collectively participating in the same activity.