Questions Thread

Moderators: Achievements, Staff

Post Reply
User avatar
G
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Ric Flair

Posts: 4124
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:09 am
Location: Generally found at the Golden Ivy Tavern. If not there, then on the SpellJammer, his ship.

Post by G »

PrlUnicorn wrote:
Rachael Douglas wrote: If the decision is that the achievement should be rescinded for those who received it in error according to the current posted standards, I can live with that.
The point of my question is not to ask for achievements to be rescinded, it's to get things on the same page. If, for instance, it should be Mage's neophyte not Keeper's then people might have earned the achievement and didn't ask for it because of the wording.
Question: Can Keepers have neophytes, even if they've only 2 WoL?
G'nort Dragoon-Talanador
Duel of Swords Legend. Best In The World™.
First All Time DoS Title Holder.
Listed as "Daddy" in your daughters contacts list.
Image
User avatar
Andrea Anderson
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Less Than Three

Posts: 1606
Joined: Sat Oct 22, 2011 9:55 pm
Location: Her Twilight Isle home she shares with Lilith.

Post by Andrea Anderson »

G wrote:
PrlUnicorn wrote:
Rachae l Douglas wrote: If the decision is that the achievement should be rescinded for those who received it in error according to the current posted standards, I can live with that.
The point of my question is not to ask for achievements to be rescinded, it's to get things on the same page. If, for instance, it should be Mage's neophyte not Keeper's then people might have earned the achievement and didn't ask for it because of the wording.
Question: Can Keepers have neophytes, even if they've only 2 WoL?
Nope. Mage only. The system is open to all mages to take on lower ranks as Mentees, same as DoF. Maybe the achievement mishap came with thinking it might be like DoS where you need to be a title holder to have a squire, which isn't the same in the other two sports.
User avatar
PrlUnicorn
Expert Adventurer
Expert Adventurer
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Navarra

Post by PrlUnicorn »

Apple wrote:
G wrote: Question: Can Keepers have neophytes, even if they've only 2 WoL?
Nope. Mage only. The system is open to all mages to take on lower ranks as Mentees, same as DoF. Maybe the achievement mishap came with thinking it might be like DoS where you need to be a title holder to have a squire, which isn't the same in the other two sports.
Another reason why the wording should be changed.
User avatar
Morgan le Fay
Adventurer
Adventurer
Posts: 127
Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2004 9:00 pm
Location: Avalon

Post by Morgan le Fay »

What makes sense to me is that the squire/mentee achievement should be worded to say Mage/Baron/Emerald.

Only squire is restricted to a title, so it makes sense that the achievement mentions a title being the requirement. The other two aren't restricted by title, only the highest rank. Meaning, Barons/Overlord are still warlords, Opals/Diamond are still emeralds, Archmage is still a mage.
Morgan le Fay
User avatar
Goldglo
Coordinator
Coordinator
Posts: 3872
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:21 am
Location: Terran Confederation

Post by Goldglo »

When we updated the achievements, I specifically worded these as 'Keeper/Baron/Opal' with the idea being that it's relatively easy to become a mentee to an Emerald or a neophyte to a Mage. It's slightly more difficult to become a mentee to an Opal or a neophyte to a Keeper. Diamond and Archmage were left out on purpose as well.

--Matt
"If you are thinking a year from now, sow seed. If you are thinking ten years from now, plant a tree. If you are thinking one-hundred years from now, educate the people."

--Kuan Tzu, 5'th century Chinese poet
User avatar
G
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Ric Flair

Posts: 4124
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:09 am
Location: Generally found at the Golden Ivy Tavern. If not there, then on the SpellJammer, his ship.

Post by G »

Goldglo wrote:When we updated the achievements, I specifically worded these as 'Keeper/Baron/Opal' with the idea being that it's relatively easy to become a mentee to an Emerald or a neophyte to a Mage. It's slightly more difficult to become a mentee to an Opal or a neophyte to a Keeper. Diamond and Archmage were left out on purpose as well.

--Matt
So then, Only Keepers with the rank of Mage can have Neophytes?

If that's correct, then I'll need to go through and check to who incorrectly has that achievement. The fault is mine for not paying closer attention. :)

Nutshell: The achievements only occur if those asking for it are given the title(Mentor/Neophyte/Squire) by the appropriate title holder (Opal/Keeper/Baron) and hold the appropriate rank to award the titles.
G'nort Dragoon-Talanador
Duel of Swords Legend. Best In The World™.
First All Time DoS Title Holder.
Listed as "Daddy" in your daughters contacts list.
Image
User avatar
Lem DeAngelo
Expert Adventurer
Expert Adventurer
Posts: 687
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:43 pm
Location: Twilight Island

Post by Lem DeAngelo »

G wrote:
Goldglo wrote:When we updated the achievements, I specifically worded these as 'Keeper/Baron/Opal' with the idea being that it's relatively easy to become a mentee to an Emerald or a neophyte to a Mage. It's slightly more difficult to become a mentee to an Opal or a neophyte to a Keeper. Diamond and Archmage were left out on purpose as well.

--Matt
So then, Only Keepers with the rank of Mage can have Neophytes?

If that's correct, then I'll need to go through and check to who incorrectly has that achievement. The fault is mine for not paying closer attention. :)

Nutshell: The achievements only occur if those asking for it are given the title(Mentor/Neophyte/Squire) by the appropriate title holder (Opal/Keeper/Baron) and hold the appropriate rank to award the titles.
Only mages can be mentors and have neophytes. In order to earn the sorcerer's apprentice achievement the mentor has to be a Keeper. In order to be a mentor, one has to be a mage.
User avatar
G
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Ric Flair

Posts: 4124
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:09 am
Location: Generally found at the Golden Ivy Tavern. If not there, then on the SpellJammer, his ship.

Post by G »

Lem DeAngelo wrote:
G wrote:
Goldglo wrote:When we updated the achievements, I specifically worded these as 'Keeper/Baron/Opal' with the idea being that it's relatively easy to become a mentee to an Emerald or a neophyte to a Mage. It's slightly more difficult to become a mentee to an Opal or a neophyte to a Keeper. Diamond and Archmage were left out on purpose as well.

--Matt
So then, Only Keepers with the rank of Mage can have Neophytes?

If that's correct, then I'll need to go through and check to who incorrectly has that achievement. The fault is mine for not paying closer attention. :)

Nutshell: The achievements only occur if those asking for it are given the title(Mentor/Neophyte/Squire) by the appropriate title holder (Opal/Keeper/Baron) and hold the appropriate rank to award the titles.
Only mages can be mentors and have neophytes. In order to earn the sorcerer's apprentice achievement the mentor has to be a Keeper. In order to be a mentor, one has to be a mage.
So, before my head asplode...

The achievement is Sorcerer's Apprentice.
You have to be Neophyte to a Keeper to get this achievement.

Only Mages can have Neophytes.

So, in order to gain this achievement, the Keeper MUST have the rank of Mage.

Right?

And same goes, though, for the other two. Barons and Opals. To get the Mentored achievement, it has to be an Opal. The Mentee of an Emerald is not eligible for this achievement.

Barons is easy, cause squires only occur with Barons.

In other words, anyone who has requested that achievement and it was to just to Emeralds and Mages were incorrectly awarded.

Now the question is, do I go through all those requests and revoke, or just let it sit as is and be more vigilant in the future.

I think, honestly, that I'm going to keep it as is, and be more careful on checking the verification.
G'nort Dragoon-Talanador
Duel of Swords Legend. Best In The World™.
First All Time DoS Title Holder.
Listed as "Daddy" in your daughters contacts list.
Image
User avatar
Goldglo
Coordinator
Coordinator
Posts: 3872
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 12:21 am
Location: Terran Confederation

Post by Goldglo »

G wrote:The achievement is Sorcerer's Apprentice.
You have to be Neophyte to a Keeper to get this achievement.

Only Mages can have Neophytes.

So, in order to gain this achievement, the Keeper MUST have the rank of Mage.

Right?

And same goes, though, for the other two. Barons and Opals. To get the Mentored achievement, it has to be an Opal. The Mentee of an Emerald is not eligible for this achievement.

Barons is easy, cause squires only occur with Barons.
Correct; prior to the last round of achievement updates, I believe the wording for the DoF version was inclusive of Emeralds. The new wording limits it to Opals only.
"If you are thinking a year from now, sow seed. If you are thinking ten years from now, plant a tree. If you are thinking one-hundred years from now, educate the people."

--Kuan Tzu, 5'th century Chinese poet
User avatar
PrlUnicorn
Expert Adventurer
Expert Adventurer
Posts: 1191
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Navarra

Post by PrlUnicorn »

Morgan le Fay wrote:What makes sense to me is that the squire/mentee achievement should be worded to say Mage/Baron/Emerald.

Only squire is restricted to a title, so it makes sense that the achievement mentions a title being the requirement. The other two aren't restricted by title, only the highest rank. Meaning, Barons/Overlord are still warlords, Opals/Diamond are still emeralds, Archmage is still a mage.
The Archmage is also the Keeper of the Celestial Tower. Only those of Mage or Mage Emeritus Rank can enter the cyclic tournament to gain a shot at the title. Unless there's a change in that, an Archmage's neophyte would be always eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.
User avatar
G
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Ric Flair

Posts: 4124
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:09 am
Location: Generally found at the Golden Ivy Tavern. If not there, then on the SpellJammer, his ship.

Post by G »

PrlUnicorn wrote:
Morgan le Fay wrote:What makes sense to me is that the squire/mentee achievement should be worded to say Mage/Baron/Emerald.

Only squire is restricted to a title, so it makes sense that the achievement mentions a title being the requirement. The other two aren't restricted by title, only the highest rank. Meaning, Barons/Overlord are still warlords, Opals/Diamond are still emeralds, Archmage is still a mage.
The Archmage is also the Keeper of the Celestial Tower. Only those of Mage or Mage Emeritus Rank can enter the cyclic tournament to gain a shot at the title. Unless there's a change in that, an Archmage's neophyte would be always eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.
Archmage is a title on it's own and not considered a Keeper title, thus would not apply to the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement. There are only 4 Keeper titles.
G'nort Dragoon-Talanador
Duel of Swords Legend. Best In The World™.
First All Time DoS Title Holder.
Listed as "Daddy" in your daughters contacts list.
Image
User avatar
Claire Gallows
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Eternal Light

Posts: 1578
Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:03 pm
Location: Dunmovin (Outside of Rhydin City), Underwood (New Haven), or Caelum Training Center

Post by Claire Gallows »

G wrote:
PrlUnicorn wrote:
Morgan le Fay wrote:What makes sense to me is that the squire/mentee achievement should be worded to say Mage/Baron/Emerald.

Only squire is restricted to a title, so it makes sense that the achievement mentions a title being the requirement. The other two aren't restricted by title, only the highest rank. Meaning, Barons/Overlord are still warlords, Opals/Diamond are still emeralds, Archmage is still a mage.
The Archmage is also the Keeper of the Celestial Tower. Only those of Mage or Mage Emeritus Rank can enter the cyclic tournament to gain a shot at the title. Unless there's a change in that, an Archmage's neophyte would be always eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.
Archmage is a title on it's own and not considered a Keeper title, thus would not apply to the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement. There are only 4 Keeper titles.
It isn't? I was under a different impression.
As of September 21st, 2000, the Archmage also is the Celestial Keeper
http://www.ringsofhonor.org/dom/ckeep.php
User avatar
Lem DeAngelo
Expert Adventurer
Expert Adventurer
Posts: 687
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:43 pm
Location: Twilight Island

Post by Lem DeAngelo »

Archmage is the highest RANK who also holds the TITLE of Celestial Keeper. The archmage's neophyte is eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.
User avatar
G
Legendary Adventurer
Legendary Adventurer
Ric Flair

Posts: 4124
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2004 1:09 am
Location: Generally found at the Golden Ivy Tavern. If not there, then on the SpellJammer, his ship.

Post by G »

Lem DeAngelo wrote:Archmage is the highest RANK who also holds the TITLE of Celestial Keeper. The archmage's neophyte is eligible for the Sorcerer's Apprentice achievement.
Sounds like we need to make some clarifications for this achievement.
G'nort Dragoon-Talanador
Duel of Swords Legend. Best In The World™.
First All Time DoS Title Holder.
Listed as "Daddy" in your daughters contacts list.
Image
User avatar
Lem DeAngelo
Expert Adventurer
Expert Adventurer
Posts: 687
Joined: Fri May 25, 2007 11:43 pm
Location: Twilight Island

Post by Lem DeAngelo »

The achievement description says Be A Keeper's neophyte. The top section of the DoM standings list the 5 keepers in large, bold font and the first Keeper is listed as Archmage/Celestial. Each neophyte has their mentor's name next to them on the standings in the format [mentor: Lem].

To get the achievement, you have to be neophyte to a Keeper, but only mages can have neophytes. I'm not sure what the achievement description used to say, but it looks clear now. If it needs to be simplified further, is it easier to just change the achievement title to "Keeper's Apprentice" or even "Keeper's Neophyte."
Post Reply

Return to “Achievement Awards”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest